According to the "Stern" magazine, a german based magazine (in the lines of "Der Spiegel"), is publishing an article this wednesday that proves the soldiers have received written orders indicating that they could and should use torture techniques to force detainees into talking.
The "Stern" reporters copied some sensitive papers and superior orders from the Pentagon, in southern Afghanistan, and wich they will print in tomorrow´s edition.
Amongst the torture techniques used, the magazine points out:
-Using mortar fire, shot close to the detainees to frighten them;
-Use of small arms fire, shooting close to the detainees to frighten them;
-Using attack dogs;
-threats of transference to Guantanamo Bay base;
-loud noises, fitted into a sleep deprivation strategy;
-Sudden change of temperature, often causing pneumonia;
-Sexual abuse and humiliation;
-Regular beatings;
-And many more, amongst other techniques.
According to the magazine, the detainees were entitled to only 4 hours of sleep a day, allowed on a random order throughout the 24 hour day.
The magazine will publish also the poll results, where 74% of germans are totally against the use of torture, even in excepcional cases.

If this story turns out to be confirmed, it will dispute Donald Rummsfeld´s statements where he said the US troops were given explicit orders to act according to the Geneva Conventions.
The Amnisty International organization had already stated in an open statement to the press that it had received reports indicating widespread use of torture in US controlled prisons, throughout Afghanistan. Just as the International Red Cross and several other Human rights organizations.

So, are there any germans here? Anyone who can get their hands on the article tomorrow, or post a link for it?
I tried searching the web for "Stern", but all i got were endless lists of links about Howard Stern´s latest adventures, and a hotel chain...
:rolleyes:
If the orders are real, this should dig up plenty reasons to why Rummsfeld should resign, or even criminal prosecution. If true, it would prove he lied to the public, and that he aproved the use of torture. If the orders exist for Afghanistan, it is only logical to expect that a similar order exists in Iraq, and that would explain the recent sordid events at Abu Ghraib.
Oh, regarding Abu Ghraib, have you seen the latest quotes from Pfc England? The female soldier on those photos?
She said she would stich the wounds inflicted during torture herself if they were not too deep. (How many wounds infected after, because they were not treated properly?)
She also said that they were ordered to do it, and said it "looked funny, so they took pictures"!
Oh yeah, it was shure funny! Those iraqis were having a blast, oh yeah! I bet It was a barrel of laughs...
BITCH!! I hope she gets 20 years in a military prison, along with her fun lovin´ buddies, where she can contemplate just how "funny" it really was.
:ass: :ass: :ass:

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"Quincitilius Varus, give me back my legions!"
Emperor Augustus of Rome.

Orders like that would never be put in writing. You eliminate the ability to deny, if it's in writing. Orders flow through the chain of command. So, an individual soldier would never wind up with anything directly from Rumsfeld.

The likelyhood is that the story is a complete fabrication. If it's true, it would certainly change the minds of many. But, do you actually believe that anyone would be dumb enough to put orders like that in writing? The story is fabricated.

While I agree with your reservations, would you have believed that anyone would be stupid enough to have their pictures taken, standing next to tortured Iraqi prisoners?

Unfortunately, yes. I would believe that there are people stupid enough to let that happen.

How old are a majority of the soldiers? Late teens to early 20's. How mature are those people? Not extremely.

How often have you gotten together with your buddies and had your picture taken doing something stupid? While I've never had mine taken in front of someone being tortured, I have had my share of stupid photo ops.

It's almost a right of passage. You do something stupid and you take a picture so you can laugh years from now. You simply get caught up in the moment, and the next thing you know someone's got a picture of you swinging naked from a balcony (that's an example. I don't think there's anything like that of me floating around).

So, yes I do feel like some of the soldiers may have been stupid enough to put themselves into situations with the Iraqis, and then had the moment captured on film.

I don't believe that Rumsfeld would have been dumb enough to issue an order in writing to torture anyone. No government or military leader is that stupid.

Maybe, but do you believe these are just some rotten apples, or did they receive orders? Maybe from some obscure unknown general (no I don't mean god ;) )? I just don't believe they (the soldiers) are the only ones responsible.

I'm not saying that either. The article was specific in stating that Rumsfeld gave orders in writing to the soldiers, instructing them to use torture. I'm saying that simply isn't true.

I doubt that the order to torture would have come from a general either. Too high up the command structure. IF (and I'm not saying they were) the soldiers were ordered or instructed to use torture, or that the use of it was OK, I would suspect that order came from someone no higher than a Lt. More than likely it was a few bad apples. Couple of guys that were a bit over zealous, and a staff sargent who looked the other way.

I haven't seen any photos that show torture. Can someone give me a link to an internationally accepted definition of torture, please?

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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup

i bet you did not know that "Der Stern" also published Hitlers private diaries a few years back, which soon turned out to be a crude forgery. "Der Stern" would also publish Christopher Columbus' private home videos if they could only find someone to sell them to them.

That should be what you're looking for.

Opening your eyes would help.

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