World is Darker Since Bush Took Over - Video Games Forum

fatboy · #1 (**permalink**) 05-28-2004, 10:04 AM

Yet more evidence that Bush, the Antichrist, has sucked the light right out of the world. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/28/sc...8shine.html?th

"scientists have concluded that sunshine on Earth brightened in the 1990's, then dimmed after 2000."

On a serious note though, let me see if I understand this:

More clouds = dimmer world, fewer clouds = brighter world. Uh, okay, makes sense - can I have a grant to study what happens to the ground when it rains? I have a theory that it gets wet.

Dimmer world = cooler world, but according to global warming alarmists more clouds = hotter world.

So, which is it? Are we coming up on the next ice age or an inferno?

hypedave · #2 (**permalink**) 05-28-2004, 10:27 AM

Oh damn, when I read the thread title I thought it was a joke but this is some serious stuff here. So pretty much the clouds arent getting any thicker anymore, they are instead getting lighter now? Oh boy, don't know if this is good or bad.

SwamP_ThinG · #3 (**permalink**) 05-28-2004, 10:33 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/05/25/global.heat.reut/index.html

genius · #4 (**permalink**) 05-28-2004, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboy

So, which is it? Are we coming up on the next ice age or an inferno?

according to a Newsweek article from april under the headline "The Cooling World":

Quote:

The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it...

The central fact is, that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth's climate seems to be cooling down. Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the cooling trend, as well as over its specific impact on local weather conditions. But they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century.

hypedave · #5 (**permalink**) 05-28-2004, 10:51 AM

now that I think about something,
I had a science school teacher some years ago in Middle school. She was like thuis huge enviromentalist freak, she road a bicycle to school, wasnt a smoker. Never years any aerosol cans, she always tell us that the Earth is moving south ever year, in a nuttshell she was telling us that the temperatures in some states will be rising every year and summer would coming earlier every year.

Now if thiose calculations fit right then, I would have to say she and is right especially after reading this article, since that year, Summer times in Texas has been getting hotter and hotter, earlier and earlier, this is already May and we are seeing temperatures of 90+ Degrees, that usually doesnt happen until July or August, im curious now to see what the high tripple digit will be this summer.

Starfury · #6 (**permalink**) 05-28-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboy

Yet more evidence that Bush, the Antichrist, has sucked the light right out of the world.

No, Bush, the Antichrist, is making even light avoid this planet.

Quote:

Dimmer world = cooler world, but according to global warming alarmists more clouds = hotter world.

More clouds don't mainly cause a hotter world, it's higher temperatures that cause more water to be in the air and therefore more clouds, so I see no contradiction there.

What more clouds can do, is reflecting Earth's own thermal radiation right back (which wouldn't show up on these "earthshine" measurements), therefore largely negating the influence of the dimming they cause.

Quote:

So, which is it? Are we coming up on the next ice age or an inferno?

If I had to bet my money on anything, it would be on a climate of more extremes.

SwamP_ThinG · #7 (**permalink**) 05-28-2004, 05:36 PM

My bet we are gonna get both, one at a time.
First the planet overheats and dry up, melting the ice caps and rising sea level, causing hurricanes at a regular bases.
Then the huge amount of water vapour combined with all the greenhouse gases we put up there, and that the process releases rapidlly in the atmosphere will cause the clouds to virtually block out the sun light, and then it´s all downhill from there. You´ll get acid rains wiping out the few vegetation that remained after it got hot, and away we go.
Back to the ice age. No prob, i´ve got my eye on a cosy little cave near by.
The planet works in cycles, and eventually it makes its way between cycles, but our use of greenhouse gases has sped the process a 100 fold.
Eventually all those gases will get trapped in the ice again, and the planet will start to recover its balance slowly. And then WE come along again, fuck it up big time, and then the whole thing starts over again.
Aren´t we the smarter animal...!?!

Starfury · #8 (**permalink**) 05-29-2004, 02:21 AM

Again on the subject of more clouds -> higher / lower temperatures.

If these clouds are clean (i.e. consisting of evaporated water), they will keep in more energy than they keep out, causing a rise in temperatures.
If, on the other hand, the clouds are dirty, they'll block out more sunlight than they'll keep in, causing a drop in temperatures (extreme example: nuclear winter).

So if we have a global warming, we can't count on the generated clouds to cool us back down, they'll do exactly the opposite.

genius · #9 (**permalink**) 05-29-2004, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfury

If these clouds are clean (i.e. consisting of evaporated water), they will keep in more energy than they keep out, causing a rise in temperatures.

but about all clouds consist of condensated and frozen water. and they cause less energy to be absorbed from the sun, which is easily understandable: in the sun it is warmer than under cloudcover; also from space cloudcover is white and water/land rather dark. bodies with dark surfaces get hotter in the sunlight than bright ones do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfury

If, on the other hand, the clouds are dirty, they'll block out more sunlight than they'll keep in, causing a drop in temperatures (extreme example: nuclear winter).

rather rare. the best example is the eruption of the st. helens in 1980, the dust it carried into the atmosphere actually caused colder weather for a few years. that way we had more white christmases in the early 80s. it was great, we had so much fun in snowball battles, sleighing and i built the most wonderful snowmen:-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfury

So if we have a global warming, we can't count on the generated clouds to cool us back down, they'll do exactly the opposite.

that is not true. clouds make it colder, however watervapor in the atmosphere that is not condensated into clouds does work as a greenhouse gas like CO2, CH4..., letting VIS range EM pass but absorbing in the IR range.

Starfury · #10 (**permalink**) 05-29-2004, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genius

rather rare. the best example is the eruption of the st. helens in 1980, the dust it carried into the atmosphere actually caused colder weather for a few years. that way we had more white christmases in the early 80s. it was great, we had so much fun in snowball battles, sleighing and i built the most wonderful snowmen:-)

Thanks for agreeing with at least one simplification

Quote:

but about all clouds consist of condensated and frozen water. and they cause less energy to be absorbed from the sun, which is easily understandable: in the sun it is warmer than under cloudcover; also from space cloudcover is white and water/land rather dark. bodies with dark surfaces get hotter in the sunlight than bright ones do.

that is not true. clouds make it colder, however watervapor in the atmosphere that is not condensated into clouds does work as a greenhouse gas like CO2, CH4..., letting VIS range EM pass but absorbing in the IR range.

Now for my other simplification.

What you're saying is true, but as additional clouds are the result of more humidity in the air, the overall effect is still a warming.

The condensated water in the form of clouds will in fact reduce the overall effect of the warming generated by the added evaporated water in the atmosphere (otherwise at some point we could pick boiled lobsters right out of the ocean

), but it will not cool the Earth back down.
(Especially, since the warming will cause the atmosphere to absorb more water-vapor and less ice and snow will also mean less reflection on the surface)