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Old 10-06-2005, 12:47 PM
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Default When you can't fight your enemy, fight your "friends".

This article caught my attention. It appears that now that Israel has moved all of its people from Gaza that Hamas needs someone else to fight. It has therefore turned to fighting the Palestinian police.

Now isn't this the same Palestinian authority that Hamas is supposed to be fighting for? Isn't one of the goals of Hamas to see exactly what just occurred, Israel moving out of Gaza? If so, then why is Hamas shooting at Palestinian police?

Perhaps their goals aren't as noble as some thought. Perhaps "freedom fighter" would be too hasty of a term.

-- Jeff
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Old 10-06-2005, 08:18 PM
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Fuck I am sick of that region and its bullshit.
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Old 10-06-2005, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zteccc
This article caught my attention. It appears that now that Israel has moved all of its people from Gaza that Hamas needs someone else to fight. It has therefore turned to fighting the Palestinian police.

Now isn't this the same Palestinian authority that Hamas is supposed to be fighting for? Isn't one of the goals of Hamas to see exactly what just occurred, Israel moving out of Gaza? If so, then why is Hamas shooting at Palestinian police?

Perhaps their goals aren't as noble as some thought. Perhaps "freedom fighter" would be too hasty of a term.

-- Jeff
Well its yes and no...

Hamas is not just competing against Israel it is also competing against the Palestinian Authority (PLO) for control of the future state. These groups are all competing against each other. PLO is seeing as failing to get a state after the "infatades" in the 90's so more radical groups have come to center stage.

Unfortunately Hamas and Hezbollah can do a lot for the Palestinian people that the supposed Palestinian Authority has not done well. These groups provide social programs to refugees and jobs to the unemployed (which a huge part of the population is unemployed and in of it self a very dangerous situation). Think of these groups as I guess rival mob organizations, they can produce social services, public goods, violent acts for political gain and they compete with each other.

In Gaza Strip now with Israel is out of the picture these groups are vying for power to make up for the power vacuum. Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority is too weak to step up to the plate (this is for many reasons, Israel and many of its own Arab neighbors kept it down). This for several reasons, first off Palestine is not yet a state there for it lacks many resources necessary to control its territory. Many peace agreements have failed because they have put responsibility upon the Palestinian Authority which is not in its power to accomplish. The very fact that they are called the Palestinian Authority rather than Palestine is another indicator of not being a state entity.

The Palestinian Authority needs finances from the outside and help with its security. Egypt is already helping secure the Gaza border and they will need more cooperation like this to continue.
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Old 10-10-2005, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dictator_wanna_be
Well its yes and no...

Hamas is not just competing against Israel it is also competing against the Palestinian Authority (PLO) for control of the future state. These groups are all competing against each other. PLO is seeing as failing to get a state after the "infatades" in the 90's so more radical groups have come to center stage.

Unfortunately Hamas and Hezbollah can do a lot for the Palestinian people that the supposed Palestinian Authority has not done well. These groups provide social programs to refugees and jobs to the unemployed (which a huge part of the population is unemployed and in of it self a very dangerous situation). Think of these groups as I guess rival mob organizations, they can produce social services, public goods, violent acts for political gain and they compete with each other.

In Gaza Strip now with Israel is out of the picture these groups are vying for power to make up for the power vacuum. Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority is too weak to step up to the plate (this is for many reasons, Israel and many of its own Arab neighbors kept it down). This for several reasons, first off Palestine is not yet a state there for it lacks many resources necessary to control its territory. Many peace agreements have failed because they have put responsibility upon the Palestinian Authority which is not in its power to accomplish. The very fact that they are called the Palestinian Authority rather than Palestine is another indicator of not being a state entity.

The Palestinian Authority needs finances from the outside and help with its security. Egypt is already helping secure the Gaza border and they will need more cooperation like this to continue.
Accepting all that you've written at face value, there is still the problem of their methods. The global community (U.N., E.U., etc.) is not going to accept a Palestinian government from Hamas or Hezbollah if they gain it only through use of force against their own people. The assault by Hamas on a police department manned exclusively by Palestinians appears, to the outside observer, as a chaotic situation. Hamas should be using diplomacy as much as possible at this time. Instead, by using violence against the people it is "trying to help", marks it as a criminal organization. Can you say that the police in Gaza did anything to provoke the attack? They were doing their job (attempting to enforce the no guns in public policy of the only accepted government in the region). Hamas should be trying to use political power to achieve their ends within "their own nation" instead of shooting.

I dont disagree that the Palestinian Authority is a weak and somewhat corrupt organization. That said, the Palestinians (including Hamas) have to show unity and try to work together to fix that authority because the authority at least has the appearance of legitimacy. Egypt, for example, is trying to help the Palestinians, but it won't do so if Hamas cannot control itself (or if Hamas cannot be controlled by Abbas). From Egypt's standpoint, it is hard to justify aiding Gaza in the chaotic situation it is in.

If Hamas uses violence to gain power, the world will start to view Gaza/Palestine as it does many other tyrannically run nations (e.g. unfavorably), to the detriment of the new Palestinian state. If Hamas used diplomacy and the political process to gain power, the world will view Gaza and Palestine as a legitimate developing nation. If Hamas doesn't gain power after using diplomatic means, Gaza and Palestine will still be recognized as a civilized nation because of the diplomatic process (to the betterment of all Palestine). Finally, if Hamas uses violence, but fails to gain power and only creates chaos, the Palestinian government will be hamstrung by its inability to deal with its people (as it is today).

The only good outcomes come from a restraint of Hamas (and Hezbollah) now that Israel is out of Gaza. It is one thing for these groups to shoot at Israeli soldiers (marking them as pseudo-militia), it is quite another for them to be shooting at Palestinian civilians and police.

-- Jeff
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