Well, it does on certain issues. A good analogy would be the Lords chamber in Britain. Laws have to be seconded by them. The point is that PSOE have the power to form government, but by no means are guaranteed a majority, and they will have a fiercer opposition than that encountered by the PP

First of all - my condolences to the people of Spain. A truly terrible tragedy and my thoughts go to them all.

Secondly, it doesn't really matter why people changed their votes or why the PSOE garnered the win. It doesn't matter what the political climate was up until the election and it doesn't matter what the political climate is now. It doesn't matter that the PSOE disagreed with the war in Iraq from the very beginning.

What matters is what terrorists believe the reason for the change to be. If they believed they could get Spain out of Iraq by murdering 200 people, and Spain leaves Iraq, then murdering 200 people gets Spain out of Iraq. If it works in Spain, it could work in other countries and is at least worth a try.


"Nothing is lost to the Absolute, and all appearances have reality." - F. H. Bradley (1846 - 1924)

Well, this certainly doesn't strengthen Bush's position here at home, regarding this supposed Coalition of the Willing's support for his war, that's for sure.

Fatboyshare,

I am not entirely sure what you mean by only what terrorists believe matters.
Spain has just over 1000 soldiers deployed, not in active combat, and terrorists 'forcing' them out is not going to change anything. PSOE had pledged that the troops would be out IF the UN didnt have charge of the situation by June, thereby leaving the door open for said troops staying put.

Old Europe is a Bushism which is a perfect example for the American ignorance of the people's wills in Europe. Neither France nor Germany participated in the war because the reasons were made up for the removal of Saddam because the population was against it! All of Europe is "old" but so is India, China and so forth... I suppose anyone with more than 500 years documented history must be "old"!

But back to the thread:

Spain's rulers lost due to a magnitude of problems. Economics, ETA, the population being against backing the US etc. The terrorist attack has nothing or very little to do with the outcome of the elections. Until the day of the election the Spanish PM claimed in the european press that the ETA was to be held responsible. May it be that people got sick of being lied to and decieved about issues pertaining to their families?

I hope for once that Americans don't listen to the tasteless "I defend America" from Bush but look at the real record of his legislation. If you see past the "war on terrorism" Bush has not produced anything worth re-electing him for and the damages done by his rule are far reaching and will take years to repair.

~Grisu

@Barca- if the terrorists (or would-be terrorists) believe that they have affected a change, they will continue to use these same tactics and expect similar results. If I were a terrorist, my debrief would look like this:
1) the party that can help me realize my goals wins the election when they were the underdog
2) they won after I murdered 200 people (in the name of Allah, because Allah likes the blood from children)
3) therefore, mass murder before an election will sway an election

Nowhere in my logic does the question come up, "Why did the voters change their minds?" It's assumed - this happened, then this, then this.

Fatboyshare:
I diagree. Al Qaeda cannot seriously think that this sets a precedent. At times like this, voters normally tend to vote right wing, and in this case a combination of ill judgements from the PP, ALONG with the attack have caused their demise. However, if making 1000 troops on humanitarian mission is deemed a victory, it is a hollow one.

Grisu:
I strongly disagree with some of your comments. The Spanish PM did no such thing. Indeed he proclaimed the attack to be by ETA, but we in Spain have a history with ETA, iver the past 2 months police have intercepted over 500kg of explosives set to explode in Chamartin, a big train station in the core of Madrid. On the very same day of the attack we learned about the existence of a tape with islamic teachings, in arabic, found on the van where the triggers for the explosives where found. As of that same evening, WE, the people, knew that ETA wasnt the only possible culprits. After that, interior minister Angel Acebes gave news to the spanish people about the clues being followed, and how all leads were open, which is just the way ot should be. On saturday, 5 arrests, 3 moroccans and two indians. Aznar didnt say a word. This was on saturday, and the election was on sunday. The whole thesis that the government manipulated is bullshit. The government said what they had to, and in a correct manner. All parties agreed to cease campaigning for the elections, yet few hours after the attack they were already blaming the government and setting demonstrations against the PP. And I did not vote for the PP. Nor PSOE for that matter.

Barca - Did al Qaeda seriously think that murdering 3000 US civilians would elicit no response from the US? My money is betting that is exactly what they thought. Certainly they didn't expect the overthrow of the Taliban, the overthrow of Hussein, and the relentless pursuit of them. bin Laden has said that we are "Paper Tigers" and "will run at the first drop of American blood spilled". And rightly so, we have run from many provocations over the past decade.

I don't think we're talking about rational people here. If they believe it to be a victory, then it is a victory and worth trying somewhere else.

BTW: has anyone else noticed that no terrorists died in this attack? Evidently they've figured out they don't have to.

Fair enough. I just wanted to make the point clear for those who see Spanish people as having cowered to Al Qaeda

OMG - I certainly don't think that, I apologize if it seemed so. Democracy functioned - the people elected a voice which spoke for them. Unfortunately, this choice, coupled with the attacks, strengthens the beliefs of terrorists.