Holy Shit

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Some people are like Slinkies.. They're not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

1. You do realize that the government and law enforcement officials are FAR more capable of determining who was behind it than you are. Say someone comes into your house and kills your significant other while you're away. How would you handle this when you get back? There's no evidence, other than DNA and possibly a small article of clothing (say they broke through a window and there are some fibers on the glass and floor because their shirt ripped). How the fuck would you find out who did it? Keep in mind that since this is anarchy, there most likely wouldn't be a DNA database. But even if there was, what are you going to do, collect the DNA, somehow get access to the database, and when you do find a match, hunt them down over the whole world and kill them? That's similar to what the law enforcement would do, except they would have more than 1 person looking for him, thus being a lot easier to find him. So now you're fucked, with a corpse of the person you love in your family room, and no repurcussion for whoever caused you and her this much pain and grief. -as stated before this could happen just as easily right now than if anarchy was the state of things, except if that happened today then I'd still beleft w/ all the b.s. govt. & it's "injustices." Revenge & punishment are useless, there's nothing inherenty right or wrong so there no basis for them. there only hopeful attribute in the best of scenerios is a potential deterent to would be invaders. Anarchy is more akin to Anti-statism, that is w/o it's negative connotation of utter chaos, as if government was ever a real order to begin with.
2. How would you live without a job? Would you farm your own food? Keep in mind the second you start farming and selling some of your food, that's a job. So, as Jeff said, you would have to be sustaining, either that or somehow have lots of money so you don't need to have a job. -agriculture is detrimental, civilization is very bad. one could "live off the land." edible plants and whatnot.
3. Hell, right now the only reason you can get by without a job is because your girlfriend gets paid by the government! - I have my share of contradictions, but this is not one of them. I could "live off the land" if so wished or live off the excesses of civilization as there is a surplus of abandoned buildings to squat & overflowing factory dumpster to eat from. plus there's plenty of free food everywhere. Theft is always a viable last resort.


*Voluntary Simplicity -Voluntary simplicity is a lifestyle considered by its adherents to be a sustainable, ecologically sensitive alternative to the typical, western consumerist lifestyle. The term "downshifting" is often used to describe the act of moving toward a lifestyle based on voluntary simplicity.

*Nihilism -a revolutionary doctrine that advocates destruction of the social system for its own sake; complete denial of all established authority and institutions.

*Primitivism -1.A belief that it is best to live simply and in a natural environment 2.A belief that the acquisitions of civilization are evil or that the earliest period of human history was the best; Primitivism, or anarcho-primitivism, is an anarchist critique of the origins and progress of civilization. Primitivists argue that the shift from hunter-gatherer to agricultural subsistence gave rise to social stratification, coercion, and alienation. They advocate a return to non-"civilized" ways of life through deindustrialisation, abolition of division of labour or specialization, and abandonment of technology. There are however numerous other non-anarchist forms of primitivism, and not all primitivists point to the same phenomenon as the source of modern, civilized problems. Some, like Theodore Kaczynski, see only the Industrial Revolution as the problem, others point to various developments in history such as monotheism, writing, patriarchy, the use of metal tools, etc.

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OK...please go away and adhere to your philosophy by stop using the Internet to access this site "OMG TECKANOLOGIE!!!" Maybe someone will join you.

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Some people are like Slinkies.. They're not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

yeah yeah I'll be out of here someday, no doubt. my "philosophy" is still in the works and the cpu isn't inherently bad or even the means to bring it about, though I don't agree w/ them. The rationalizations of it are endless, but I'm not at a point in which I can effectively contest it as such. Inventions have their uses. Though I could live w/o the cpu if it came down to it, still questioning if I should. I mean arcade games are fun, but they're not that fun, lol.

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There's actually nothing I can say to your post, punkusmartyrus, that I wish to take the time to say (there's plenty that I could say, but I'm too busy today to get into it). Instead I'll say this. Fare you well in your anarchistic endeavors. I say that knowing that natural law, survival of the fittest and might makes right doesn't leave much room for second place. If one is not always the biggest, strongest, smartest, fastest, etc. then that one will soon be dead or at the mercy of another and in a natural law setting, that mercy will be short lived if it exists at all.

Look at the animal kingdom and the reality of the life of anyone other than the alpha-males of the world. They are slaves to the whims of the strongest, often being denied the basic necessities because of the displeasure of the strongest. A beta wolf doesn't live off the land. He lives off of the leavings of the alpha and only if the alpha is pleased with him. That is natural law, the strongest make the rules (and yes, laws still exist, they just change when leadership changes).

I'm curious, have you been wrongfully accused or suffered such random injustice that you decry? Have you sufered for being part of a nation? What prompted you to follow this philosophy? Note that I'm not saying it is wrong, if this is where you have faith, then good luck with it.

-- Jeff

ps This has gone far afield from the topic of whether a pregnant woman's murder should count as two, so feel free to move it to another thread if you wish. Since I'm on the topic, however, why, based on your philosophy, would you state that the murder of a pregnant mother should be counted as two murders? Since you believe in no laws, such a distinction would be meaningless, wouldn't it?

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"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." --Ronald Reagan

yeah, I'm moving it to "Garbage Debates", lol.....no seriously. before we go though I leave this part here

1. "why...would you state that the murder of a pregnant mother should be counted as two murders? Since you believe in no laws, such a distinction would be meaningless, wouldn't it?" -obviously I "believe" in natural law, so I've already acknowledged it subjectivly atleast. asking about meaning, laws, religion, sexual preference, fav. food or color, etc. is irrelevent to the question she asked. Given that the baby is formed enough to be considered a fetus then it's a living creature to me as much as the mother is, so the individual would have killed TWO people. I see now where the confusion came in as I took the question more literally than what Giggley_Girl may have intended when she probably meant it solely in a legal sense.

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I guess I didn't ask my question well. What I meant is that in "natural law" there is no such thing as "murder." As such, then there wouldn't be any reason to bother with whether one murder or two were comitted; simply something died. Differentiating that two murders occurred as opposed to one means that the term "murder" is meaningfull in a legal sense, but such a term doesn't appear to exist under the philosophy you've presented. Why then did you bother to make and later justify the argument that killing a pregnant woman would be two murders?

-- Jeff

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"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." --Ronald Reagan

I am not sure Punky has decided fully how he chooses to live his life. He contradicts himself in almost every post. I feel he wants to believe in a "natural law", and live as an anti-socialist, but maybe he is having a difficult time in adapting wholly to that life??
I find many of his comments confusing due to the fact that I am not sure that he is sure of what his beliefs are.

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GIGGLES

That is for the most part true. I don't know about all the contradictions, but my views on the world around me are constantly changing and being modified or dropped completely due to some new fact or experiance. Is this what all 21 year olds go through mentally? Confusion, uncertainty, and are in alotta grey zones on issues? that's how I feel @ times for sure.

"Murder" is a man-made term w/ a moral(perhaps legal) connotation, but I generally go along w/ it as interchangable w/ the word killing. So when I saw the question it translated to me as: "Should the killing of a pregnant woman count as one death or two?" With whatever moral/legal overtones to be applied there after by whoever. hypothetically, if I was forced to do jury duty that is how I would of had to approach it.

I do not absolutely adhere to natural law. I prefer natural law to government, but that doesn't necessarily make natural law overall favorable to me -sorry if that was the impression. I'd prefer the communal potential of anarchy to out right natural law as of the moment.

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Don't worry Punky...I don't judge you. I am sure that sometime in the near future you will be comfortable with your choices. It does sound to me though that you will end up living with a combanation of both "natural Law" and a Government run Society.
I just hope that when you do come to terms with how you choose to live your life that you will be happy and content with your decisions.

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SEX IS NOT A SIN!
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GIGGLES