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Old 05-15-2004, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisu
I agree. What about the crimes comitted while being an addict in order to get the next fix. We all know not everyone manages to stay out of crime to support the financial strain of a dope habit.
Since those have been commited to support a medical mal-function, should there be no punishment? Essentially you would create a "insanity defense" for any crime committed while trying to get the next fix or while on dope.... Not a good idea!
Like Swamp-thing said, if an addict commits a crime because of his addiction, or if an addict commits a crime while under the influence, then society should punish the crime so committed. Addiction is a state of being and it should not be criminalized, it should be cured.
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Old 05-15-2004, 01:19 PM
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Pot's not a big deal. They can legalize it for all I care, as long as I live in a country where I don't have to pay a lot of taxes to feed some of the ones that just sit high in front of the tv and don't work.

I wouldn't want to see Swamp behind bars either and agree that drug addicition is a medical issue. However, most of you guys seem to be discounting self control and will. I don't know all the stuff Swamp was hooked on, but chances are, he is no crack baby. He made the initial steps into being addicted by trying highly addictive stuff for one reason or another. I for one, am easily addicted to things (I smoked for about 14 years, stopped over a year ago), and knowing this, would not even try certain stuff. Don;t want to get hooked? Don't start, it's that simple.

I have certain friends hooked on one thing or another but do I pity them for having a 'medical problem'? Hell no. Some have great jobs, nice life but for some reason they have self esteem problems and they need something for it.

Anyway, here's hoping Swamp stays off the wagon. ;)
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Old 05-15-2004, 01:21 PM
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I like to drink. I really enjoy a beer in the evening. A glass of wine is very nice, and the occasional harder drink suits me just fine. But, I don't 'abuse' alcohol. Even if I did, it would not be a criminal matter until I injured someone else, or destroyed property.

If I were to smoke pot or do some other form of drug, but do it in the privacy of my own recreational time, how is that any different than sitting down for a few drinks?

If I take drugs and then get in my car, that should be punishable. If I show up at work having taken drugs, they should be able to terminate me. It's absolutely no different in either situation if the "drug" is alcohol.

If someone is an abuser, it's medical. It is a problem they have with being addicted to whatever. You can be addicted to just about anything... drugs, alcohol, sex, cigarettes, theft, driving fast... the list goes on.

Medically speaking those who are inclined to abuses typically have a chemical imbalance. They can't fight the craving for their vice. They need the fix. It's how they relax. There isn't anything criminal about their behavior until they impose themself on another individuals' rights. That's where the criminality comes in.
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Old 05-15-2004, 02:09 PM
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Since the drug testing goes back quite a while, how can you determine if the person is a "recreational" dopehead or a hard core addict that did it while at work...? 0 tollerance is the only way to go on this. Legalized pot or not.

I surely would not want to work next to someone that potentially uses dope throughout the workday/week if it may endanger my safty and potentially cost my life...
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Old 05-15-2004, 03:27 PM
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I think we should first get over some urban myths that plague this issue.
A drug addict is not automatically a dangerous person, either to himself or to others. Jumping into the driver seat of a car while under the influence wonīt automatically mean you become a road hazzard. Actually, the greatest ammount of accidents caused while under the influence of drugs, are caused by recreational users, not addicts.
After a few months of consumption, an addict will have a very hard time getting "high". He consumes drugs just to feel "normal", and take away the pains and akes of cold turkey.
When i first started using heroine, it took a simple dose of the stuff to really be in cloud city. During that time, i was a REAL danger while on the road. My vision would blurr, my reflexes were down to a crawl, i was an accident waiting to happen. But a few months after, when the addiction starts to kick in and you pass from a recreational user to an addicted user, you would be hard pressed to find anything abnormal with me if i was under the influence.
Infact, i was a bigger menace while on cold turkey than while i was "high", so to speak.
Addicts donīt take drugs to get high anymore, they do it to be able to lead an almost normal life. The same drug that before caused me to act abnormally, is now helping the addict to just cope with daily life. It assumes the same part as insuline does to a diabetic.
After the first year of regular useage of heroin, iīve never got "high" again. I was using it just to feel the same way as i do now, drug free.
And this is easely explained. The recreational user has a very low habituation threshold.His body is not acostummed to the drug, and thus his body reacts in many diferent ways. While the regular user, has his body acostumed to the substance, and it doesnīt affect him nearly as much.
Itīs like a no drinker competing with an alcoholic so see who drinks who under the table. The alcoholic will always win, because his body is acostumed to drinking. It is very, very hard to get a serious alcoholic man drunk. He will drink all night long, and you wonīt see him waver. It takes massive ammounts of the substance to get him into the same state as a recreational drinker would after a couple of whiskey shots. Itīs the same with hard addictive drugs.

Another urban myth:
Quote:
I don't know all the stuff Swamp was hooked on, but chances are, he is no crack baby. He made the initial steps into being addicted by trying highly addictive stuff for one reason or another. I for one, am easily addicted to things (I smoked for about 14 years, stopped over a year ago), and knowing this, would not even try certain stuff. Don;t want to get hooked? Don't start, it's that simple.
It was heroine, cocaine and pills. Main drug was heroine.
And no, itīs not that simple. For example, back then when i started doing hard drugs, there werenīt any "role models" to compare with. No one knew what the long term useage of the drug would do to you. No one had ever seen a "junky", no one knew what an "overdose" was, no one knew what "spiked shit" was and that it could kill you. If back then i knew half of what i know now, i would never have tried the shit. What happened to us back then with heroin, is hapening now with Exctasy. Young guys are taking them like Smarties, not knowing what it will do to them on the long run.
Everybody needs an outlet, a form of escape, a vent. Some use alcohol, some use food, some use extreme sports, some use controlled substances, some use tobacco, some use Valliums and that sort of thing, some use gambling and some donīt use anything at all and keep all the frustrations and hardships bottled up, untill they eventually explode into a violent rampage and go "postal".
The stress of life and routine in our day in age is what drives most of us to search for an outlet. The only reason why hard drugs are not so wide spread is because its illegal. If drugs became legal, we would see an explosion in comsumption the likes weīve never seen before.

In my view, alcohol, tobacco, heroine, weed, and any other substance that creates a physical or psychological addiction should be rated exactlly the same. They should ALL be legalized, or they should ALL be banned. Having two measures or double standards is highly prejudicial and hipocritical. Why should the alcoholic be excused and the drug addict be condemned?

And finally, regarding criminal behaviour:
Criminal behaviours are to be condemned, wether the perp is high on drugs, drunk, or sobre as a nun.It is not the manīs condition that deserves punishment, itīs his actions.
If a drunken driver runs over and kills a mother and child, he should be jailed. Just as any other driver should. Wether he was under the influence of something or not, should not be basis for excusal or condemnation. Only the act itself can be judged, not the person.

*Did i spell "sobre" right? Will anyone please tell me how, if i didnīt?
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Old 05-15-2004, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwamP_ThinG
*Did i spell "sobre" right? Will anyone please tell me how, if i didnīt?
Sober.
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