Salvation doesn't necessarily have to be the same with all people, We all have our point of view depending on our religions/cultures/personalities and other factors that affects our well-being. I guess nobody's wrong on this topic because salvation, in the first place, is not proven scientifically.

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Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.

You are correct, although science certainly suggests the supernatural. Where science (the natural) cannot, by its very nature, provide answers, the supernatural is the only logical answer. There are several things that science can never explain and where the supernatural would be the only explanation. As such then, the supernatural at least opens the possibility of God and of an afterlife and salvation.

-- Jeff

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"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." --Ronald Reagan

You are quite right there sir jeff, and that leaves us to our faith. How you truly believe that salvation exists. Do you believe in doctrines?

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Every fight is a food fight when you’re a cannibal.

I'll give you my position on religion in general (and faith):

I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus, his resurrection and the gift of Salvation that he offers to believers. I believe that the authors of the New Testament were human beings who wrote from their own perspectives and occasionally made mistakes and yet, their writings are consistent in terms of faith.

As a believer, I can choose to either believe in an isolated fashion, or I can choose to join one of many Christian religions which exist. In doing so, I don't have to immediately choose to accept everything stated by the religion as authoritative. Instead, I analyze the religion and make my own judgments as to the validity of the religion's tenets and practices.

I currently attend a church that is from one of the Christian religions. I do not follow every rule that the church puts forward. I respect most of their tenets and I even understand why some of their rules exist. Nonetheless, I am capable of exercising my own intelligence and have made determinations that some of their rules are improper. I have discussed this with the pastor of my church and he is in agreement with my reasoning on these issues (yet he still follows those rules as are required by his position).

A doctrine is simply something that is taught or a rule that should be followed (2 definitions in the dictionary). Let me just say that I agree with some of the teachings of the church that I attend and disagree with others. Actually this is exactly what Christians are supposed to do according to the Bible. We are supposed to analyze anything presented to us using our own intellect and the writings in the Bible as a guide and then make a determination as to whether or not something is correct.

As to Salvation (my original question in this topic), I see it as a gift that is given to those who accept it. Accepting Salvation is as simple as accepting that the person who gave it (Jesus) is one who had the authority to offer it (e.g. Jesus is God). There are no other requirements (e.g. I don't have to perform any rituals, don't have to fulfill any obligations, don't even have to live a good life -- although I try to as do most Christians, etc.).

-- Jeff

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"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." --Ronald Reagan

I'm wondering why anyone would think that we as a people need saving. what we need to to take responsibility for our actions and grow and learn from them. That is salvation.

Different religions give different definition of salvation but i dont follow any religion's theory. I believe that god is within us and knowing ourselves completely can lead us to salvation.

Taki,

Most religions don't consider Salvation as relating to our lives on Earth, but the idea of an afterlife. Salvation would theoretically result in going to Heaven (Nirvana, the Elysian Fields, Valhalla, the "good" place, etc.).
If one believes in an afterlife (which the overwhelming majority of people do), then one has to be concerned as to its nature. Although there are many faiths, with many definitions of afterlife, most can be classified into one of four camps which are:

1. The afterlife is the same for everyone. Faiths that believe in this fashion don't have the concept of salvation, and even atheists can be put into this group (their concept is that there is no afterlife, or that the afterlife is simply decomposing after being buried). A sub-class of this is the idea that everyone "goes to the same place" in the afterlife, but will have different (but positive) experiences there depending on their acts while alive.
2. The afterlife is for those who achieve Salvation, and the remainder cease to exist. The idea is that there is no "bad place" (e.g. Hell, Hades, Gehenna, etc.), instead you either survive to the afterlife or not.
3. The afterlife can be "good" or "bad"; which one a person experiences depends on certain criteria (generally actions or beliefs while alive). Most faiths follow this belief. It makes a certain logical sense if one views faith as participation in a conflict between "good" and "evil".
4. The afterlife can be "good", "bad" or "neutral" (sometimes with the possibility to move from the neutral to either the good or bad experiences). For example, the idea of Purgatory is a neutral afterlife where one spends time atoning for sins while alive to finally achieve Salvation (admittance to Heaven).

In my question referring to salvation, I was really referring to the common idea in most faiths that one can eventually have a "good" afterlife (e.g. go to Heaven, Nirvana, achieve Enlightenment, go to Valhalla or the Elysian Fields, etc.).

Certainly, taking responsibility for our actions and learning and growing from them is good in this life, but are you saying that this is how you believe one gets to "Heaven"?

-- Jeff

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"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." --Ronald Reagan

As much as I want to believe in the afterlife and I really do, I just don't. I don't usually go around saying I don't believe in something which I can't disprove but with this I just don't.

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"Have you crashed your Windows today?"

Interesting statement, Froix.

You say that you "want to believe in the afterlife" and yet you don't. I find that odd because your beliefs are your own choices. If you truly want to believe something, then you will believe it. If you don't believe it, then you don't truly want to. There is no outside force that can make you believe something that you don't want to believe any more than there is any outside force that can make you disbelieve something that you don't want to believe.

Your statements leads me to the conclusion that either

1. You actually do not want to believe in the afterlife.
   --OR--
2. You actually do believe in the afterlife but don't want to admit it (perhaps to yourself).

It doesn't matter to me if you believe in an afterlife (I'm not here to convince you, although I certainly would be happy to discuss it with you), but your statement suggests that you aren't being honest with yourself or at least aren't taking responsibility for your own beliefs. If you want to believe something, do so. If you don't want to, then honestly state that you don't want to.

-- Jeff

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"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." --Ronald Reagan

I see what you're saying here and I disagree with it. You believe 'beliefs' are our own choice and I don't believe they are. That's clearly where we differ. You mentioned the lack of outside forces that alter my beliefs but I think there are and it's called proof. If I didn't believe in aliens and someone showed me a real live alien I have no choice but to believe. I may want to believe in some things but I feel 'wanting to' isn't enough.

I honestly believe in what I believe in without any doubt if I'm being honest with myself.

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"Have you crashed your Windows today?"