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05-16-2004, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisu
You must be out of your mind! Terminally ill patients will not have any organs left to harvest as they all will be affected sooner or later. If not by the dissease, it may be from the medication.
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Not being a doctor, I can't say for sure. But it seems to me that there are terminal illnesses which don't spread to other parts of the body. At the very least, those organs could be tested to ensure that they are not diseased or adversely affected by the medication.
The point is, the patient can make that determination, along with their doctor, before the disease spreads to the other systems or other parts of the body. Someone with a brain tumor should have nothing wrong with their arms, legs, eyes, heart, stomach, intestines, or any myriad of parts and pieces that are completely unrelated to the brain.
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Terminate their life to earn a buck? That is completely against any morals of human kind.
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Well, it may be against your morals, but my morals start with "every person has the right to own their own body and do with it as they please". Perhaps you believe that you or the state know what is best for me? Perhaps you or the state believe that smoking marijuana is bad for me, so you outlaw marijuana. Perhaps you or the state believe that I'm too fat and my cholesterol is too high, so you outlaw cheeseburgers. Perhaps you or the state believe that I'm not in the right frame of mind spiritually, so you close down my Church of the Self and force me into a Christian Rehabilitation program.
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You tossed the "to save them some suffering in" to win people over,
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No, I didn't. If that were my purpose it certainly didn't work with you, did it?
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but in all reality, one would have to terminate ones life almost on diagnosis in order to be sellable. That would mean that someone with cancer would have to kill himself right away and even then it is not garuanteed that it has not spread.
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Then this is all really beside the point, isn't it? If it's not possible then you have no worries. If it is possible, why do you have such a problem with what other people do with their own bodies if it doesn't effect you?
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Your ideas are unrealistic and opposed to humanity. Organ donors save life after they die. Not die to save a life, not die to make a buck.
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Opposed to humanity? Where is the rulebook?
Would it still go against the Cosmic Morality Code to GIVE your organs away while they are still functioning for you?
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Go to China, you can order your organ. They find a donor, charge him, execute him or her and voila one heart for Mr. Rich. I couldn't live with that!
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Why are you equating obvious breaches of liberty rights with choosing to sell your own body parts?
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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup
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05-16-2004, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_G
Because that money has to come from somewhere, and most likely that 'somewhere' is the receiver of the organ. This would mean a person with a lot of money would have a much larger chance to find a 'new' organ than someone with less money. I think that's wrong.
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Why is that wrong? Is it wrong that people with more money are able to buy better houses, cars, food, clothes, etc.? Doesn't your body belong to you?
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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup
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05-16-2004, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy
Why are you equating obvious breaches of liberty rights with choosing to sell your own body parts?
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Where is the difference in your logic. In both scenarios someone had to die for you to live. How do you know that some poor rat bastard sold his life to feed his kids, wife and/or family? He may be of sound state of mind but not have any alternative. How do you safe guard against that???!
I understand your desire for self determination but will never agree with the extent you are taking it to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Franklin
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Nor are they likely to end up with either."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Washington
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
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05-16-2004, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grisu
Where is the difference in your logic. In both scenarios someone had to die for you to live.
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At the risk of sounding redundant, when you choose to sell your organs it is your choice. When another party chooses to end your life so that they may have your organs they are commiting not just murder but theft as well.
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How do you know that some poor rat bastard sold his life to feed his kids, wife and/or family? He may be of sound state of mind but not have any alternative. How do you safe guard against that???!
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Would you rather his family starved? If this is his last option then you are telling me that he can either sell his organs or his family will starve. You want to force him to choose starvation. That seems infinitely more cruel to me.
There was a case in Texas (I believe) of a midget who let himself be bowled. People would pick him up and throw him down an alley into some pins. He did this willingly, eagerly even. He had no other skills and was excited that he could make so much money doing this. Well, the local chapter for the Preservation of the Rights of the Vertically Challenged (or some other such intrusive, unwanted, and unnecessary group) simply couldn't have midgets being used as bowling balls. So they sued the bar that was sponsoring the event and won. Now, the midget bowling ball has no job and no income.
What gave these people the right to decide how and where this man could use his body? Why are they allowed to say that they know what's better for him than he does?
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I understand your desire for self determination but will never agree with the extent you are taking it to.
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Why? What harm comes to you because of it? What stake do you have in my body? Why can I not do with my body what I wish? Does it belong to you or me?
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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup
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05-19-2004, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Startup
If someone wants to kill himself to provide some money to his family (or whomever might be the beneficiary of his will), I think that is fine.
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If someone wants to commit suicide for money, he can start a life insurance. That even has the added bonus that he needs to take some time to think about this idiotic idea.
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05-19-2004, 10:47 AM
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If you're terminally ill, you won't be able to get life insurance. And most insurance policies don't cover suicide.
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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup
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05-19-2004, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy
If you're terminally ill, you won't be able to get life insurance. And most insurance policies don't cover suicide.
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If you're terminally ill your organs can't be used...
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05-19-2004, 11:21 AM
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Really? That doesn't make sense to me. If a person has a brain tumor is any other part of his body affected? Do you have any links on this?
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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup
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05-19-2004, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy
And most insurance policies don't cover suicide.
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I don't know about the US, but in Switzerland they cover it, if it's been more than three years since the contract started.
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05-19-2004, 04:32 PM
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Iīm surprised no one thought of transplanting genitals yet. If it works well, those who wish to have a bigger penis could just wait in cue for some guy with a big dick to die, and then transplant it! When someone with an organ donor card dies in a crash or something, only the major organs get harvested.
Seriously, i think medical researchers should be allowed to work with cloning techniques to find workable ways of growing new organs for those who need them. The technology is there already. You take some cells from the man who needs a transplant, and grow a whole new organ in a lab. That way you donīt have to take imuno-supressor drugs for the rest of your life, as the organ has your "signature" on it, and the body accepts it without rejection.
If people can grow whatever organs they need, the organ black market would cease to exist. Just as those desperate poor people who sell their own body parts for money. This would all go away.
Allthough i understand the desperation and the necessity that some people go through to earn some much needed money, i think itīs wrong to have people thriving on someone elseīs misery.
Poor people should be given equal chances of finding an organ suited for their bodies. It is imoral that only rich people are "entitled" to get a second chance in life. Rich people should have to submitt to the same rules and waiting lists that the poor man is forced to.
Poor people have as much right to life as any other person, rich or poor. And personnal fortune shouldnīt have anything to do with it.
The organ cloning system would get rid of all these injustices in a second.
The prices for human organs should be fixed and controlled by a central institution, like the Ministery of Health, and distributed according to health status priorities, and order of arrival. First come, first serve.
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Emperor Augustus of Rome.
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