I agree with you there. So we go from the US not learning anything, to not learning something, to not learning onething. Well, that didn't take long.

You're absolutely right though. We need to stay out of other countries' business. I think we can go a long way toward achieving this goal by letting Europe deal with Iran and N. Korea. What do you think?

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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup

@muspell - I'm not going to get dragged into a debate about the justifications for the Iraq war. You're right and I was wrong, okay? In fact, know that to be a true statement: you are right and I was wrong. The US should never have involved itself in Iraq.

But the next time you get a piece of bad news out of Iraq, which will probably be in about an hour, maybe you could stop long enough to think whether your celebrating is really the best thing for the Iraqi people.

The deed is done and the world is confronted with a new reality. You can either work to help the Iraqi people, or you can continue to applaud every setback as just desserts for the evil Americans.

And yes, I know I'm talking to the wind here.

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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup

Seems by far the most important lesson to me.

A unified front would be nice. I am not sure we should "deal with" Iran or North Korea, but that obviously depends on what you or the US means by "deal with", and that is exactly the point. We are going in circles here.

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Not to me. Seems to me that it's your problem - if you want it. I don't want it and I don't want my country to want it. Why would we ever want to waste time, treasure, and talent putzing around with you guys anymore. It's no problem for us - it's your backyard, you deal with it. I feel as safe with a nuclear armed Iran and N. Korea as I did with a nuclear armed Soviet Union. MAD kept the USSR in line and it will keep Iran and N. Korea in line. The only problem is getting our troops back. We're starting to pull them out of Europe, S. Korea should be next.

When we finally stop messing in other countries' business, then we'll have the resources to protect our country far better. At that time, the rest of the world can worry about how comfortable they feel with a nuclear Iran and N. Korea. I know they won't attack us. Or, if they do, it will be the last time they do anything and we can do colonization the easy way.

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In this country, we don't need reasons to make things legal; we need reasons to make things illegal. - Startup

Well, cheers mate, i think we mostly agree this time. Depressing stuff often, world politics. Anyway, have a good end of the year, hope you have something nice lined up.

Happy new year fatboy and also to everyone else reading this.

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