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Old 03-24-2004, 08:14 PM
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Default Fairtax, Part Deux

Fatboy, before he lost a syllable, started a thread about the proposed fairtax bill now before Congress.

http://www.fairtax.org/

Since the thread was still active at the time the forum went down, I would like to hear if anyone had any further thoughts.

I, for one, have been doing a LOT of reading on it and while I am usually adverse to change where economics are concerned and while I doubt the bill will pass, I am excited enough about the idea that I have written to my representative and I think everyone else should also.

I am very concerned about outsourcing and I think this is one of the best ways to combat it. The only part that concerns me that the tax industry would lose jobs, but I think they would easily find jobs elsewhere because the environment for business would be greatly improved.

What does everyone else think? The thought of illegal aliens actually paying taxes makes me giddy.

If this happened, they would need to set up a fairly large enforcement unit to make sure that businesses accounted for the taxes appropriately.

@fatboyshare -- have you read about how they would deal with purchases via mail from outside the US?

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/taxes/a/aafairtax.htm

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...6/171608.shtml


DeLay: Replace the IRS With Fair Tax
Wes Vernon, NewsMax.com
Wednesday, April 16, 2003
See previous article in series, Taxpayers Socked as Establishment Celebrates.
WASHINGTON – House Majority Leader Tom DeLay wants to get the IRS off the backs of American taxpayers.

By signing on to the Fair Tax Bill, H.R. 25, the Texan has signaled to his troops that abolishing the IRS once and for all is the best way of dealing with oppressive taxation, a confusing convoluted tax code, and an oppressive bureaucracy that enforces the care and feeding of the federal bureaucracy.

The House leader reinforces his determination to get some relief for overtaxed Americans by backing the Fair Tax movement. This is a tax that would be paid on what you consume.

Here’s what the legislation would do:

1. Individuals would not file. Businesses would need to deal only with sales tax returns.

2. Millions of Americans who hire tax accountants to navigate the 4,000-plus pages of the tax code each year would be spared the expense.

3. No more taxes on wages, savings and investments. That alone would increase productivity and result in significant economic growth.

4. As a consumption tax, the amount you pay in taxes would depend on your lifestyle. The more you spend the more you pay, and vice versa. All taxes would be rebated up to the poverty level.

5. Foreign companies would be forced to deal on even terms with American companies for the first time in 80 years. Under the current code, U.S. exports bear an unfair burden, with no adjustment to account for the tax advantages of imports.

***

And you’re going to see that our manufacturing will come back home.”

That would be “Europe’s worst nightmare” because, according to Gettemuller, we will be “so damned efficient.” We’ll sell our goods on the market at considerably less than the competing products of high-tax double-digit economies in Europe, “and they’re going to have to up the tax on" their own products.
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Old 03-24-2004, 09:10 PM
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Very cool. Thanks for putting this back up. And I'm very glad that diligent research has brought you on board.

I read the entire thread of the first article you linked, but I don't remember seeing anything about dealing with purchases made across borders. Do I need to read it again?

Re: outsourcing (I was going to start this one again, too but...) here's a very excellent paper from CATO http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/briefs/tbp-019.pdf
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Old 03-24-2004, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy
I read the entire thread of the first article you linked, but I don't remember seeing anything about dealing with purchases made across borders. Do I need to read it again?
No. There was no mention of it which is why I was curious if you read something in your travels.

Quote:
Re: outsourcing (I was going to start this one again, too but...) here's a very excellent paper from CATO http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/briefs/tbp-019.pdf
I already read that. Your many interesting links to the CATO website has turned my into an avid reader. I will never get my mind around the fact that outsourcing is a good thing, but at least I have most, if not all, the facts.

The beauty of the fair tax is that it should make outsourcing less attractive which is good for all (well, maybe not, but it would make me happy -- esp. the thought that illegals would FOR ONCE actually contribute to the support of the country).
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Old 03-29-2004, 08:01 PM
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Go Tommy, getcher groove on, go Tommy, youra rockstar, go Tommy!

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-break...5722-7570r.htm
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Old 03-29-2004, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy
Go Tommy, getcher groove on, go Tommy, youra rockstar, go Tommy!

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-break...5722-7570r.htm
I have been a Republican since I register to vote at eighteen. I have to admit, though, that I have not had a lot of reason to support my registered party during the recent past, but Tom Delay might change that a little.

I have seen figures (although I can't find the link) that the tax could need to be closer to 30% rather than 23% because the below the poverty line rebates would produce a revenue deficit. Even at 30%, I would support it.

I think they should allow tax on used goods, though. Allowing pre-owned real property and goods to escape tax would add another level of possible corruption and it would serverly harm the new car industry and other industries that produce good that can be purchased used.

What do you think?
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Old 03-30-2004, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
I have seen figures (although I can't find the link) that the tax could need to be closer to 30% rather than 23% because the below the poverty line rebates would produce a revenue deficit. Even at 30%, I would support it.
I haven't seen those figures. However, here's a thought: 23% is supposed to cover everything. And this bill is supposed to encourage savings.... These two are mutually exclusive. Consider that 23% is projected to fund the government at current consumption levels. But this form of taxation encourages saving, so consumption levels should go down. If consumption levels go down, 23% is not going to cover everything; it will need to be higher. Now, I haven't seen anything that addresses this apparent contradiction, but it seems to me to be a very serious consideration.

With that said, I still strongly support the bill. I don't care if it has to be 50%, the fact remains that the IRS will be gone and I will control my taxes. Those who have the ability to delay gratification will reap the rewards of a fiscally prudent lifestyle. Those who can't (and they will be the majority) will begin to realize that the more the government spends, the more taxes they have to pay. Since they'll never be able to control their spending habits, maybe they can convince Congress to control its.
Quote:
I think they should allow tax on used goods, though.
I disagree. This is like the capital gains tax: an unfair tax with no basis in logic. Tax on an item is collected when it is sold, the first time it is sold. I can see the argument for taxing the added value to an item, e.g. you buy a beat-up 57 'vette, refurbish and rebuild it and sell it for twice what you paid - perhaps a tax on the value added would be reasonable. However, attempting to collect tax on EVERY sale would create a bureaucracy 100 fold larger than the IRS with far more government intrusion. Can you imagine detailing what you sold in your last garage sale?

Besides, think of the social good that can come from this. Wouldn't there be far more interest in purchasing used goods and reducing landfill waste? How many industries would spring up to rehabilitate items that we simply toss away now? There has got to be a mountain range full of resources that we are simply not tapping into.

I think you're unduly worried about corruption. I understand your points and agree with your logic. I just think you're underestimating the amount of corruption that goes on in the current system.

You may disagree with this strongly, but I think people want to pay taxes - as long as they believe the taxation is fair. Most people wouldn't walk out of a restaurant without paying, even if they knew they could. The vast majority of people wouldn't take something they didn't pay for, even if they knew they could get away with it. I believe it would be the same with taxes. As long as the public understands what they are paying for, and believe they are paying a fair price for it, they will not seek to avoid paying.

As it stands now, most people believe the other guy is paying less - he has a better accountant, or hides his money in a foreign country, or lies about his income, or simply doesn't pay because the government thinks he's too poor (in the meantime he has a color T.V. in every room, owns his own house, his own car and eats more than he should). None of us believe we're being treated fairly so we all seek ways to avoid as much as we can.
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Old 04-07-2004, 10:44 AM
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All Americans should celebrate this coming April 11th. "Easter?" you ask. No. April 11th is the day you've finally worked enough to pay all your taxes.

BTW: It's the earliest this day has come in the year since 1967. Huzzah!
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