HTTP://WWW.OGRISH.COM

I just found this website called Ogrish.com, that features some really nasty pictures and videos. There´s a lot of stuff in there, but it also has a lot of footage relating to Iraq, that you won´t see anywhere in the media.
Just a piece of advice:
If you are impressionable at the sight of blood and stuff, DON´T WATCH!
And don´t watch after lunch, either.
To see just click the "VIEW" tab. I can´t link direct.

This poor guy was run over by a US tank, in Iraq.
Click HERE and then click on the "View" tab, in the center of the page.

And here´s a footage of american tank crew, after being hit by R.P.G., in Fallujah. Click HERE . Sama thing, click on "View", next to where it says "download", in center page.

One of the best (or worst), is this one here, of an iraqi shot in the head at a US checkpoint. Check all 4 photos. The third one is self explanatory.
Click HERE

I couldn´t post the images directly on the post, but that good, because it could scare a few people off and freak them out. Trust me, the site is full of stuff 1000 times worst.
There´s footage on Saddam´s arrest, several iraqi victims of US fire, pretty much all gore and blood.

Have fun!
If you can...

__________________
"Quincitilius Varus, give me back my legions!"
Emperor Augustus of Rome.

Ok, i was browsing through the site, and i found one disturbing piece of video. It shows a US helicopter shooting at wounded iraqi, when he was already down. Hear the radio chatter, as the pilot says "He´s wounded, hit him!". That´s one sick fucker!!It wasn´t necessary!!
GGRRRRRRRRR!!Bastards...


Click here, and then click "View".

__________________
"Quincitilius Varus, give me back my legions!"
Emperor Augustus of Rome.

Have you seen how they economically take out the truck together with the wounded Iraqi with one salvo? Those pilots act like machines...

btw this clip has already been posted on the good old SR forum by Ranger if I'm not mistaken...

Yeah, Rob_G is correct, I did post that one over on SR at one time; it's been floating around out here on the net for quite a while now. If you watch the long (full) version of it the reasons for that attack are much more apparent. If you only see the shortened clip it looks pretty inexcusable. Either way, it was a pretty cold blooded action, I'll grant you that. War sucks.

I must have missed it, sorry.
What reasons were those, that become so apparent in the full version?
From this clip, i can tell that the iraqis weren´t even armed. The chopper was faw away from the site, as they missed the first shots because they hadn´t calibrated the distance. So i doubt they were "under fire", and had to fire back.
I call this murder, not war. The third iraqi was down for the count, and they knew it. So why take the last shot?

And how about the other videos and photos?
Did you see the one of the checkpoint, with the iraqi´s head exploded?
What the hell kind of ammunition does that?? It went through the windshield, and vaporized the man´s head. Is the US Army using Dum-Dum bullits? Explosive tipped? I mean, a regular bullit will penetrate and explode the back of the skull, but this was diferent. The back of the skull was almost intact, while the front was...well, you saw it! It could be a .50 caliber, but the hole in the windshield is too small for that.

__________________
"Quincitilius Varus, give me back my legions!"
Emperor Augustus of Rome.

Its probably the same Bullits Steve McQueen used, ;)

In the long version of that helicopter video clip the Iraqi's can very clearly be seen trying to ditch a weapon in that field off to the left. It looked like a shoulder fired surface-to-air missile, perhaps a Stinger - and helicopter jockeys definitely do not like people with surface-to-air missiles and RPG's very much. The guys in the helicopter had been watching the activities of those guys on the ground for quite a while. This clip was filmed when the war first started, too. During the initial attack on Iraq. There were no US troops on the ground (at that point in the war) to intercept or capture those guys that were attacked. The helicopter crew, as a forward element on a rapidly evolving battlefield, obviously had orders to engage and destroy anything on the ground that may have presented a threat to the oncoming invasion forces. Those Iraqi's were clearly in uniform, they were traveling in military vehicles, they were engaged in military activities, they were armed with military weapons, and they obviously represented a very real threat. They were completely legitimate targets by any standard.

In the shortened video clip you just don't see the full "context" of the engagement, that's all. Context is everything.

I did not visit that website myself (I've seen all the gore I really need to see in my life already, thanks) so I don't know anything about that other clip you mention - the exploding head thing. But I can tell you that virtually any rifle bullet will explode a human head - especially if it passed through a vehicle windshield first. When it hit the windshield it would have mushroomed and flattened from that initial impact. By the time it passed through the windshield and hit some guy's head the bullet was probably flattened out to the size of a nickel or a quarter, at least. The human head is mostly water, and something that size (and travelling at that velocity) would make quite a mess of it. That's called "hydrostatic shock".

Just for the record; the NATO 5.56 mm bullet (for the M-16, etc.) was specially designed and is "weighted" more heavily on one side than the other so that it travels nice and stable until the very instant that it hits something, and when it does hit something it immediately begins to tumble end-over-end. In this way it causes a great deal more damage than it's relatively small caliber might lead you to expect. This is entirely intentional, and is meant to help ensure that the relatively small 5.56 mm round is just as lethal as the larger, more powerful 7.62 mm rounds that weapons like the AK-47 use. The 5.56 mm design dates back to before 1960. This is nothing new. That's been the standard small caliber NATO round for nearly 40 years now. It's small, but it's wicked.

Maybe you should see it. I know you must have seen a lot of such shit to last a lifetime, but there is nothing like seeing to believe. I trust your experience, and i knew that about the M-16 ammo already, from a "Tales of the Gun" documentary. But the head exploded to the front, not the back, wich is why i thought it was strange. Well, you have to see it for your self. I can´t make it any justice by words alone.

As for the chopper episode, no matter the context it was still a wrong thing to do. You do not shoot at wounded people, enemy or not. It´s just plain wrong, under any standard.

__________________
"Quincitilius Varus, give me back my legions!"
Emperor Augustus of Rome.

It's just plain old physics at work there, SwamP_ThinG.

When you get hit in the head by a high-velocity projectile the majority of the contents of your skull will always eject outward in the direction that the bullet came from.

That's caused by the "cavitation" effects of the high-velocity projectile itself. The high-velocity object pushes everything away from itself with great force - it imparts a portion of it's own inertia (kinetic energy) to whatever it comes into contact with, pushing any surrounding material away from it's path very forcefully. Since this all happens in a nanosecond, as the bullet is still traveling through the skull, initially the only place the liquified material, which is under great pressure from those kinetic forces imparted by the projectile, can escape the skull is through the original opening - the first bullet hole, in other words. Some of the material (a realtively small amount) gets sucked into the vacuum vortex that the fast-moving object creates behind itself, and when the bullet finally reaches the other side of the skull and exits this "pulled along" material is ejected from the second hole. But by that time most of the material has already been blown out the first hole by the vast internal pressures of high-velocity cavitation.

http://www.vnh.org/EWSurg/ch02/02Discussion.html

On the helicopter video: It's hardly murder when it's obviously a perfectly legitimate engagement against hostile forces in the middle of a war. Those guys on the ground were willfully engaged in hostile actions against the forces that killed them. If they didn't wish to be killed in that way then all they had to do was not engage in those hostilities.

A wounded soldier may still be able to fight despite their wounds. It happens all the time. They might also be treated medically, recover, and rejoin the fight later. There is no legal mandate that demands that you do not fire on a wounded combatant, unless they are actually (and truly) attempting to surrender. Those guys were not attempting to surrender. The pilots could not even be sure that guy had been hit yet. You can't be sure either, not with any real certainty, not having actually been there to inspect him physically yourself.

I think it's moot. If you fight in wars it's assumed that you're fully prepared to die as a consequence of your involvement. They fought, they died. Their choice.

Personally, I think that guy was hit the first time, and I think that had they left him alone at that point he would have suffered a long, hard, excruciatingly painful death, alone out there. I think they actually did him a huge favor by administering the swift coup de grace as they did.

I assume then you have no problems whatsoever with it?
Would it be ok for the iraqis to shoot Private Ryan then? She was wounded, but she would be treated and go back into the fighting. Would it be legitime for the iraqisd to shoot her where she stood, and all the other wounded POWs?

I only say this, because people seem to have conflicting opinions, depending on wich side of the fence they stand. If it´s one of theirs getting the "coup de gras", it´s ok by them. But when it´s one of yours, it´s a warcrime...
Go figure.

Btw, nice link there. Good stuff.
:thumbsup:

__________________
"Quincitilius Varus, give me back my legions!"
Emperor Augustus of Rome.