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05-12-2004, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
After having watched this, does anybody here still believe that this war is "winnable"? As long as there are still a few angry muslim fanatics with kitchen knives left alive on this planet, won't this just continue? And on a broader scale, is a "war on terrorism" itself winnable? I honestly just don't see how it can be.
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What's the alternative? I mean, obviously we should not have invaded Iraq, but the hate that exists in parts of the world against the US already exists and we have seen that that hate can be brought to the American homeland.
I agree that the so-called war on terrorism may not be winnable, but obviously that doesn't mean we can surrender either, right?
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05-12-2004, 11:01 AM
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Another Gamer
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What I find interesting is how the guys who commited this gruesome acts are described. They are enemies of freedom, members of Al Qaida, Iraqi resistance fighters, terrorists - all terms that include a relative big number of people. No one I heard mentioned so far that these are the actions of some misguided individuals who don't represent the Iraqi cultlure and civilization (or the Arabian culture in toto, for that matter). I suppose that privilege is saved for Americans.
It's a nice strategy, though. I'm sure many Americans want the governmnet to retaliate now - no matter how many innocent Iraqi's or who exactly will die.
And regarding Abu Grahib? Hey, those asseholes got what they deserved. After all, they are all primitive Arabs...
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05-12-2004, 11:22 AM
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Why isnīt no one questioning the fact that the "head" doesnīt bleed? That there isnīt any squish of blood from the severed neck, even though we have a huge artery there?
Yes, there is a chance itīs an authentic footage, but there is also the chance that it isnīt. Why people immediately disregard the evidence is beyond me.
After watching twice, i too was ready to put my hand on fire that is was authentic. But now, now that i took my time and analised it frame by frame, iīm not so shure.
Given past fiascos and outright frauds that we have been feed by the media, we should take every single piece of evidence with a little skepticism.Remember the alien authopsy? Looked real enough, but it wasnīt.
Remember TWA 800?
The problem here, is that no one is really considering that hipotesis, and thus discard it on the spot without even analising the evidence, labeling it of "conspiracy theory".
Iīm keeping my options open. Besides, does anyone here doubt for one second that some secretive sections of US inteligence are both willing and capable of pulling such a stunt, if requested?
Maybe itīs easier not to question anything. Maybe itīs easier to let the chips fall where they may, without wondering why. But wasnīt just such a mentality that got us into this mess in the first place? That no one questioned what we were told?
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05-12-2004, 01:11 PM
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That's just totally sick and disgusting. Maybe I should pass the next time ogrish.com offers me something to watch...
The head doesn't necessarily have to bleed that much (this ain't no Kill Bill), the main bleeding, I believe, would come from the neck. And because of the poor camerawork (which actually makes me wonder more than the lack of blood) we can't see that well how much blood there is.
And an American official said the corpse of Nick Berg was later found on a road bank.
And to Ranger's question:
No, I don't think the fight against terrorism can ever be win, not like this anyway. Like he said, everyone on this planet can become a terrorist and use whatever they can find as a weapon. So unless we can monitor every person alive 24/7 we can't stop terrorism. It can never be completely extinguished, but it could one day perhaps be reduced to a low enough level to say it doesn't exist anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startup
What's the alternative? I mean, obviously we should not have invaded Iraq, but the hate that exists in parts of the world against the US already exists and we have seen that that hate can be brought to the American homeland.
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The hate comes from somewhere, its not spontaneous. Of course some of the people would hate the western countries, especially the USA, no matter what. But others are heavily affected by the politics of the US and other western countries. What I'm getting at is that instead/in addition to fighting the war the US and the rest of the world should also consider what is causing the hate. The American people (generalization) think their homeland is the best country there can be and everything they do is good. The rest of the world don't see it that way. (At least some) of the terrorists don't have as strong a hate against many other western countries perhaps because they are not trying to rule the world and/or feed their culture and values to everyone.
Terrorism is wrong, that's a given. But there's always a reason for it, no matter how stupid it is. So the world should not only fight the consequences, but also the reasons. We are determined to lose, or keep fighting forever if we just assume that "they hate us for no reason at all and we can do nothing but fight them with force." That's a dead end.
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05-12-2004, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwamP_ThinG
Why isnīt no one questioning the fact that the "head" doesnīt bleed? That there isnīt any squish of blood from the severed neck, even though we have a huge artery there?
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I didn't watch it. First of all, because I've eaten recently but also because I think such things shouldn't be shown to the public.
But even if I'd seen it, I neither know how much blood there's in a head and if there's enough blood pressure in the neck artery to squirt out blood nor what happens to the rest of the body after a decapitation. And actually, I really don't want to.
So I simply can't give any well grounded opinion on this matter (and I suppose most members of this board couldn't)
What I've heard is that this man's body has been found, and so even if the footage were faked, it wouldn't change the fact that he's been decapitated.
Quote:
Remember the alien authopsy? Looked real enough, but it wasnīt.
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So did every Sci-Fi movie in the last 10 years (and they even had better picture quality)
Quote:
Iīm keeping my options open. Besides, does anyone here doubt for one second that some secretive sections of US inteligence are both willing and capable of pulling such a stunt, if requested?
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I don't doubt the ability, I don't doubt that were willing people to be found (This assessment is absolutely not limited to the US or it's Allies, just to make this clear)
But I doubt that such a thing would be of any real use to anyone at this time.
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05-12-2004, 03:33 PM
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I wish I hadn't watched it, seriously... We know there are sick people in the world, but to see footage like that...
As for the blood, I do see some dripping out. There is plenty on the ground too, a lot of it probably already came out beforehand. It is strange that he doesn't resist, but we all react in different ways.
I am open to the option that it could have been done by people we don't expect it to be, but the girl's story on DU is just supposition, snipping in convenient parts of the article and rewording (e.g. had to get to Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait vs. would come home through Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait).
Where's the motive? She doesn't even know. With all we hear about anyway, what could he have possibly seen that would make it necessary for him to die (by US hands)? I could easily make suppositions that would make the situation make sense. In any case, like his parents, I see the US as being responsible anyway, because they detained him without cause.
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05-12-2004, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hehehhehe
I wish I hadn't watched it, seriously... We know there are sick people in the world, but to see footage like that...
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Holy shit, I agree. I wish I could go back two minutes and decide not to watch it.
I thought that the "act" would be fairly quick, but the "person" doing the "act" didn't seem to be in too much of a hurry. I am not an authority on beheadings, but it seemed real to me...too real.
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http://www.csmonitor.com/commentary/index.html
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05-12-2004, 04:14 PM
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Fuk-It-Ol
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not to sound like a sick bastard or anything, but can someone PM me the link?
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05-12-2004, 04:33 PM
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Swamp-Thing posted the link in his first post. You may want to consider whether you really want to see it.
__________________
If I'd lived in Roman times, I'd have lived in Rome. Where else? Today America is the Roman Empire and New York is Rome itself. - John Lennon
April 15th, Make it just another day!
The best daily political cartoons can be found here:
http://www.csmonitor.com/commentary/index.html
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05-12-2004, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Startup
Swamp-Thing posted the link in his first post. You may want to consider whether you really want to see it.
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Ditto that. I felt the blood leave my face as I saw it.
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