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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2004, 06:29 AM
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@fatboy
Oh that is what I am thinking. I fell in the mirror and stepped through a better man. I can only say ... thanx ...

I thought the US became involved in WW2 because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and they stayed involved because they thought a Eurasian nazi power block seemed like a bad idea (apart from that Hitler never would have stopped there). No personally i liked the Marshall plan (the US support for the rebuilding of western Europe) a lot more. It built a great lot of goodwill in Europe and made (western Europe) a strong partner for a long time.

I am not touching the cold war for now, bit too big a subject. Maybe another thread?

I think you are evading the question. Maybe you can tell me what you think the real reason is that the US invaded Iraq. Maybe you already did so somewhere else, then please indulge me.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2004, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy
That's classic. You're too weak willed to take yourself off the teat and it's our fault. As I said, what isn't America's fault.

BTW: Our "goddamn obscene army" was created, in part, to kick the Germans out of your country. It stayed "goddamn obscene" in order to keep the Soviets out of your country.

Glad my grandparents' and parents' (and some of my) money kept you alive long enough to bitch and moan and insult us.
Dream on...
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2004, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlin
I think you are evading the question. Maybe you can tell me what you think the real reason is that the US invaded Iraq. Maybe you already did so somewhere else, then please indulge me.
And again, you fart in the elevator. When was that ever a question in this thread? Follow a conversation or stay out of it.

@lulu - witty retort
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2004, 02:40 PM
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Once again you evade the question. And I think the why of the unilateral decision of the US to invade Iraq is relevant to this thread.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2004, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlin
Once again you evade the question. And I think the why of the unilateral decision of the US to invade Iraq is relevant to this thread.
And once again you try to bait me into discussing what has already been discussed ad nauseum. If you want my opinion on why the US thought it was necessary to invade Iraq then you can search through this board to find it.

How you go from the reason for our "goddamn obscene" military to the Iraq invasion is beyond me. We had a "goddamn obscene" military long before Iraq. In fact, it was infinitely more "goddamn obscene" 20 years ago. You coming into the conversation between lulu and I is like a socially inept party guest walking into a discussion on world politics and saying, "But my favorite color is blue!" Some feel sorry him, some try to fit the incomprehensible statement into the topic, and all stare at him with a look that questions, "I wonder what he's smoking? And can I get some?"

And, btw, the US did not unilaterally invade Iraq. If you're unclear on why this is so, ask Bond369.
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2004, 04:43 PM
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So don't indulge me.

Happy new year anyway.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2004, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by marlin
Happy new year anyway.
Thank you. And to you as well. I hope it a less contentious one than this one has been.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2005, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fatboy
@lulu - witty retort
As usual. Happy New Year.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2005, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
You mean Europe didn't want the inspectors back in? This was a negotiating point?
IIRC europe did want inspection. There were inspections till US/UK started their bombing campain (remember no fly zone?) and inspectors had to be removed for safety reasons.
You wanted inspectors back even tho you were part of a reason they left.
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We got everything we wanted except a resolution to the problem by the UN.
A resolution that would start a war based on fake evidence...
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See, resolving international problems is what the UN is all about. That's its purpose.
So resolving international problems = giving US/UK war resolution based on fake evidence?
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Good. I'm glad. There's some who would argue that US actions in Iraq have made the world a much more dangerous one. I'm glad you don't subscribe to that.
Nothing to do with it... Only that my country is small so its hard to spot by wannabe terrorists.
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Europe likes to claim that anything done without the express permission of France and Germany is a "unilateral" and illegal action.
Bullshit. There was no resolution for war so anyone can claim its illegal.
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Your statement denigrates the contribution, even if it's simply moral support, of every nation involved in the coalition
So?
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As if their moral contribution is nothing without the involvement of France and Germany. That's arrogant and insulting.
Wtf is with you and France and Germany?
Their contribution is meaningless since it has close to zero support among population. If US/UK actually found any reason for invasion you would have gotten a LOT larger support as well as lot larger army with wich to go in war.
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And what does democracy have to do with it?
Ask Bush... hes the one bullshitting about spreading democracy.
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To my knowledge, no country in the coalition over-rode a national vote against Iraq involvement.
Umm no vote at all?
Wasnt there an incident when Rumsfield was bitching about Turkey for not negotiating directly to generals insted of parlament/president. Or something like that...
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Then placing this reactor in France is the best thing to do from a scientific point of view? The science would be poorly served if it were placed in Japan?
France and some other countries want it in France. They build it in France.
US, Japan, S. Korea, ???, want it in Japan. They build it in Japan.
Problem solved. If 2 sides want to build something and disagree on something than each side has every right to build it by themselfs.
How many Europeans did you see bitching at US for "unilateraly" landing on moon?
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The US joins with the rest of the world to study global warming and solutions if necessary. The US asks the world to be reasonable and do more research on global warming. But that won't accomplish the goal of putting the US in her rightful place. That won't sufficiently undermine the US economy or cost the US enough. So the world says, "No. You must do it our way." We decide that if the world won't listen to reason then we just won't participate. We walk away and do our own thing. As a result, we are lambasted, and chastised, and insulted, and accused of every heinous natural disaster for years to come.
So world is after US? Thats based on...?
And destruction of enviroment hurts ALL countries, building an experiment hurts NONE.
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That nations abide by a common set of international rules. That resolutions and judgements passed down by the UN be followed and respected. But the world says, "No. We are not interested in that."So we decide that if the world won't do what the UN is supposed to do, then we'll just do it ourselves.
rofl
So no resolution was passed to attack Iraq, majority of the world followed UN law and didnt attack Iraq, you disreagarded UN law and now your bitching at the world for following laws which you helped to set up?
Also note that you wanted world to attack Iraq based on LIES. No one cares about your lies? Too bad.
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France, together with the EU, joins with 5 other nations (the US included) in order to create a new source of energy. A group of nations joined together to work together to accomplish a goal; as in the previous two examples. The EU asks the other nations to spend the money in France. When they refuse, the EU, working as a single unit, threatens to dissolve the partnership and go it alone.
EU and some other country(ies)... dunno which since linke to that article is outdated.
There are only 2 choices. EU/... wants it in France, Japan/... wants it in Japan. No progress has been made in 2 years of talking so your suggesting it should stay as it is? Your mad since one side decided to do experiment alone because alternative is NO experiment at all. Oh wait... they can always do what US wants...
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So, if you tell me that, had the US tried to do what the EU is trying to do with this; if the US had said, "Build it in America or we'll find others who will agree with us"
Id say go for it. Actually you already have a chance. EU and its partners will go alone, US and its partners can go alone as well.
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if you tell me that there wouldn't have been an uproar in Europe then I'll believe you and I'll drop the subject. If you can tell me, honestly, that you think Europe would've been wrong to condemn the US for wanting to undertake the project without them then I am wrong and you are right
I dont know if that would happen. If it would id be first to cuss at whiners... No country has any right to dictate if others should do certain experiments unless those countries signed a treaty they wont...
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I would like to see either more anger directed at the EU for threatening "do it our way, or else" or a little less anger directed at the US when we do the same.
IIRC that article said something about if this is not resolved in near future than they will go for it alone. Nothing about "do it my way, or else". Dont see whats wrong with trying to push things foward.
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2005, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond369
A resolution that would start a war based on fake evidence...
Sigh. No, a resolution that would put Iraq in compliance with the UN. How short our memory is. Sigh.
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Bullshit. There was no resolution for war so anyone can claim its illegal.
Sure, anyone can claim it's illegal. Anyone can bitch, moan, make threats, and sling insults. But I haven't seen any votes in the UN to sanction the US. I haven't seen any court rule that the US has violated any law. I haven't seen even any one bring this case to a court. Why don't you do it? It obviously bothers you, and you're obviously in the right. Why not teach the US a lesson?
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So?
So that makes you arrogant and insulting.
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Wtf is with you and France and Germany?
Their contribution is meaningless since it has close to zero support among population. If US/UK actually found any reason for invasion you would have gotten a LOT larger support as well as lot larger army with wich to go in war.
I don't give a rat fuck what France and Germany do. My point was that there were over 60 nations that sided with the US on this issue. But because France and Germany didn't, the US is accused of acting unilaterally.
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Ask Bush... hes the one bullshitting about spreading democracy.
You're the one who brought it up. Are you off your rocker or something?
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Umm no vote at all?
Wasnt there an incident when Rumsfield was bitching about Turkey for not negotiating directly to generals insted of parlament/president. Or something like that...
Is Turkey a democracy?
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France and some other countries want it in France. They build it in France.
US, Japan, S. Korea, ???, want it in Japan. They build it in Japan.
Problem solved. If 2 sides want to build something and disagree on something than each side has every right to build it by themselfs.
As I've repeatedly said, that is of course the answer. More power to them.
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How many Europeans did you see bitching at US for "unilateraly" landing on moon?
Actually, I don't think many - though there were probably some. You see, Europe has felt pretty comfortable bashing the US since the USSR fell. You don't have to depend upon us for your security anymore so you're more than happy to shit on us.
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So world is after US? Thats based on...?
Please. Of course. The US is too powerful, too rich. What else could be the reason? The first Kyoto Protocal would've destroyed our economy. We asked for changes. "Absolutely not!" railed Europe. Then, when we bow out, Europe realizes that she can't even afford what she wanted us to do, so she implements the changes we requested. So, it's "absolutely" okay when the pain is borne by the US, but not okay if the US doesn't suffer.
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And destruction of enviroment hurts ALL countries, building an experiment hurts NONE.
Right. What if this thing explodes?
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rofl
So no resolution was passed to attack Iraq, majority of the world followed UN law and didnt attack Iraq, you disreagarded UN law and now your bitching at the world for following laws which you helped to set up?
Also note that you wanted world to attack Iraq based on LIES. No one cares about your lies? Too bad.
So, we were lying that Iraq had broken UN sanctions and resolutions? Can you point me to the source you have that shows Iraq was complying with the UN?
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EU and some other country(ies)... dunno which since linke to that article is outdated.
There are only 2 choices. EU/... wants it in France, Japan/... wants it in Japan. No progress has been made in 2 years of talking so your suggesting it should stay as it is? Your mad since one side decided to do experiment alone because alternative is NO experiment at all. Oh wait... they can always do what US wants...
Fuck. How many times do I have to tell you I'm not mad? The French are handling this exactly as they should handle it.
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I dont know if that would happen.
Right.
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IIRC that article said something about if this is not resolved in near future than they will go for it alone. Nothing about "do it my way, or else". Dont see whats wrong with trying to push things foward.
Oh, kind of like, "Either the UN should force Iraq to comply with its resolutions, or we will." Just trying to push things forward, you know.
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