Quote:
Originally Posted by zteccc
Ok, let's see if I get it or not
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You don't.
The only thing you keep saying, in many words, is that immigrants don't assimilate and Chirac's policy doesn't help the French open up them. I say that the immigrants are having a hard time assimilating while Chirac is pretty much irrelevant in this matter. You keep mentioning Chirac... It's not his fault that they are in the situation that they are in. It is the ignorance and incompetence of the prime minister(s) and the other members of government, along with general discrimination. In France, domestic affairs are handled by the PM. One can argue that the President does more than act as a poster boy for France and its interests abroad but that's another matter. I've seen many different ways they've handled the situation, from outright fascism in some Front Nationale mayor controlled cities, to attempts at appeasement (by giving away scooters for example).
Any time you are critically assessing a situation, you need to consider the environment. By constantly applying how things work in the US, you prove you don't quite understand this. You bring up Cambodians, and I'll say the US is a much more immigrant-friendly country (duh), and tell you that comparison is irrelevant. In all that you've written (which is a lot), there isn't much France-specific content (except some feeling expressed by Chirac - as if that could be the main cause of those fires), which is why I felt like posting.
Finally, I'll say this. How can you possibly say that you are "getting" the reality of the situation? I've lived there and I wouldn't even say that, not being a pissed off immigrant or white French. I bet you've never even been to France and seen what's going on. You even say you have a "solution"? Are you insane? I never even said I had a solution. Do you really think it's that easy, that someone who hasn't even lived in France can just type up something based on his readings and think he has a solution for a problem plaguing a country like that? Incredible... Why not put your expertise on fixing the race problems in the US first? You keep on saying they haven't tried to assimilate and I can tell you I've met plenty who have. I can also say that the French, to an extent have opened up to Muslim culture and have seen many examples of this. I used to play soccer every week mixed with Moroccans (some of them were co workers I got along with) and regular French people. You're trying to make simple observations out of the whole riot problems while you have no clue of what's going on there, period. I really don't mean to sound harsh but I feel it's so true. I also don't mean it as a cheap insult. There are immigrant problems in the UK that I read about some times and you know what? I have no clue of what's going on there. I've been there plenty of times for vacation or work, but still can't understand the subtleties of their situation, just like I think it highly unlikely that you can understand why Paris was burning. I've gotten lost in Paris and walked through horrid parts of it inhabited by African immigrants. Why didn't they riot (I'm sure some in the suburbs did) since their lives seems much worse than those of these arab immigrnats? I don't have a clue...
After all that, if you have real observations on the French, please feel free to discuss it here. If anyone else feels that ztecc "gets" it as he says, please do the same because I'm not convinced. Things like this just aren't that simple.