Ok, I don’t want to write a multipage essay and too lazy to quote every conflicting comment but I'll say this. While I read the many comments from ztecc, I found myself just shaking my head because it just seemed like much of it was coming from someone who just didn't “get it.” There were a lot of misconceptions and comparisons that were just not fitting. Maybe it's because of the US press who mostly show what they want and don't necessarily shoot for accuracy. The vice versa is true, believe me. It's sometimes funny to read about world events in US and French papers since the take is so different, especially during those UN hearings pre-Iraq invasion. While Skandalouz wrote just a fraction of what ztecc wrote in terms of content, he was spot on.

My comments in no particular order:
These kids causing the riots can speak french just fine (but with a suburban accent). These kids are mostly arabs but come from northern africa, not the middle east (ztecc keeps mentioning middle east but I'm sure you know you don't need to be from the middle east to be arab).

Although the mention of exterior dress would seem irrelevant, it was actually a big issue in France a few years back after 9/11. Some muslim girls wanted to accentuate their devotion to islam by wearing head scarves to school, a big no no in France as religious items are probihited in schools, even crosses. So ztecc’s point about inflexibility was correct there, even though he probably didn't know about this (I think he would've mentioned such a strong supporting point).

Consider that while blacks and other minorities in the US have had a long time to adjust (and yet have problems), these immigrants came post World War II. Think about the employment difficulties faced by the Irish and Italians when they came through Ellis Island because of discrimination (which ztecc admits exists in France). Is it so hard to believe that the same is going on in France?

Contempt breeds contempt, and the French are now in a cycle where the arabs are pissed because they have nothing and act it out, while the others are now pissed off at them for their behavior. That’s why Le Pen (fascist from Front Nationale party) was able to make it to the final presidential election a few years back. Even though I’m kind of defending them, I hated these punk kids while I was there. They hassle you for money, cigs, or outright try to rob you. I’ve had many incidents with them, but luckily I didn’t lose anything while some friends did. I did have my car burglarized, but I can’t know who did it. Never had problem with the punk kids in the US who keep more to themselves. I had a friend who lived in an apartment complex where there was often a burnt car in the parking lot (it’s not new). Anyway, the non-immigrant French are pissed too now. Chirac is a wuss, while Sarkozy (I hate this fucker) is a hardass when it comes to these issues and it should help him in the next election.

So you want a "hard case" that they're being discriminated against? Ztecc gave it himself. Isn't the fact that the employment rate is so much higher for them evidence enough? A 30% difference can't just be attributed to laziness IMO. Do you really think that many people would rather sit on their asses rather than get jobs to better themselves? Try to find out the percentage of managers in France that are of arab origin. You won't find any encouraging numbers there. If a hiring manager receives two resumes, one from a person with a very "French" name, and one from an arab who might be slightly better qualified, guess who'll get the job?

In my years in France, the only person who echoed ztecc's comments was this girl who was probably a staunch supporter of the Front Nationale, the extreme right wing political group. We (me being the only foreigner there) all rolled our eyes as she conveyed her ideas to us, which were pretty much the same things coming from ztecc. These immigrants obviously need to integrate better, but the question is whether that's possible given the environment and circumstances. ztecc talks about how he's a minority and yet he has done well for himself. That's great, but again, he just doesn't understand that they don't necessarily have the same merit based system in France. I think the fact that a person, regardless of race or economic class, can work hard and do well for themselves is the great thing about the US. In France (and a lot of Europe for that matter), it's more archaic than that. To summarize it briefly - while the country provides free education to everyone, only the richer kids can afford to get into the better colleges and school names count a lot more than they do here in the US. In some African nations, if you’re from a rich family, you’re set for life (better jobs) even if you’re a fool, while a smart kid from a poor family will probably end up collecting junk for a living. I consider France to be between the US and that kind of African country, although hopefully closer to the US. (There’s a large thread somewhere here where we compared educational systems and I defended the US system.)