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Originally Posted by fatboy
I'm happy to be underestimated then. I noticed you haven't put together a quote where Bush claims Iraq helped with 9.11. See, in my world, I take people at what they actually say, not at what I think they say.
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I can see that in your world you also have blind faith in your leaders and believe every word they speak out loud.
It doesn't matter if the Bush administration has said the exact words. It is enough that they tell the American people that al-Qa´eda was responsible for 9/11 and that Iraq has close ties with the organization, harbours terrorists etc.
If you really believe that the Bush administration has done their best from the beginning to keep Iraq and 9/11 separate issues, and that they have done so by not speaking the exact words, then it seems a bit pointless to discuss this any further with you.
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Certainly, they can. And this seems to be a very touchy issue for you. Were you manipulated? How is that Bush's fault? Because you're gullible and believe that nuance is more important than the definite? Because you prefer the subtle over the overt? You jump to conclusions and that's Bush's fault. Yea, makes perfect sense.
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What? How did you come to the conclusion that this is a very touchy issue for me? Or is it supposed to be an insult?
And no, I was not manipulated. I still have my brains left.
I'm truly amazed of the filter through which you see Bush's actions. You honestly think he has been totally honest to the American people during the past 4 years? That he has done nothing to imply there might've been a connection between Iraq and 9/11? Amazing.
Many people tend to believe what the government tells them, especially when the message is repeated over and over again. You can't just give the government a carte blanche to lie or twist the truth, and when someone believes them you blame the guy for being gullible.
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Maybe they're all just stupid? Maybe they all prefer to be led rather than find out for themselves? Maybe they simply don't have time to research issues and prefer instead to use the conclusions that the press has jumped to? Whatever the reason, I don't know how you can blame Bush. Unless, of course, you always believe there must be someone else to blame. It could never be your fault, right?
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Not all of them have to be stupid, but perhaps just too narrow minded or lazy to search more objective information about things than what the government tells you. When the government is the source of information which proves to be untrue they can be blamed.
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Why is this important to your argument? Do you know how many times "personal responsibility" was mentioned at the democratic convention. I'll give you a hint, less than 1. What does that mean?
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I think it is important because it shows the strategy of the administration. Talk about 9/11, talk about terrorism, talk about wmd, talk about Iraq, talk about Saddam, but don't mention Osama. Don't you think it's a bit strange that when they talk about terrorism they don't mention Osama who was/is the leader of al-Qa´eda and actually had something to do with 9/11, but instead they talk about Iraq and Saddam, neither of which had attacked the US, didn't have wmd, don't have strong ties with al-Qa´eda etc. ?
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That's hilarious. You actually go through what must have been diligent research, come up with articles in which no quote from Bush or his admin indicates an Iraq/9.11 tie, in fact, many of the articles specifically point out that Bush has made no such claim, then claim that Bush did indeed make such a tie. You can keep bemoaning how you were snookered, but in the end I think you've got to wonder who's responsibility it really is for the conclusions you draw.
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Yeah, what a riot...
The "research" I did actually didn't take that long so don't worry, I didn't waste too much of my life for it.
As I have said earlier, the exact quote from Bush saying "Iraq had ties with 9/11" isn't needed. I'm sure everyone here understand that you can make a point without actually spelling out the exact words.
When over 50% of the Americans still believe Iraq is linked to 9/11, don't it make you wonder where they might have gotten the idea? You really think they are all just so gullible, and they have only themselves to blame for making up such things in their heads?
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How come you're not making the same claim that Syria or Iran were involved in 9.11? Bush has said on countless occasions that both countries have ties to al Queda. What made Iraq so special?
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First of all, I'm not making the claims, Bush and his buddies are.
You may have noticed that Iraq has been on the agenda of Bush a bit more than Syria or Iran. Iraq had been on Bush's agenda for a long time. With a similar information campaign as now has been done but with more emphasis on Iran and less on Iraq, the Americans would probably now believe Iran was behind 9/11.
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BTW: I have a great bridge I want to sell. High income from the tolls and very busy. Know anyone who would like to buy? I'm selling cheap.
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:confused: