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Originally Posted by fatboy
As I said, public school in America has only been around for the past 100 years or so. In the end, I think my list would be much larger than yours simply because I've got a longer time-span to draw from. My point with the list is to show that these people who have really built our society certainly didn't suffer intellectually, educationally, or socially from being homeschooled.
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But the list doesn't prove that they benefitted something extra from homeschooling either.
In the US I believe this may be true. But e.g. economically speaking its very inefficient. So it has its pros and cons like most issues.
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Again, I'm illustrating that homeschooling is not a new idea. Rather than answer attacks from the teachers' unions, school administrators, and every other vested bureaucrat in this leviathon of a government funded waste, the public school system should have to be answering questions about why Johnny can't read and why Billy finds it necessary to gun down his entire school. Certainly these point to problems in education and socialization?
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The reason why Billy finds it necessary to shoot his classmates is not in my opinion the public education (or at least not only public education). I would blame the parents first, then media, gun control laws, the whole American society in general etc.
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To be sure, most do. Still, I'm betting that it's harder to do (haven't gotten to that point with my kids yet). Children here enter school at about 5 or 6 years old, so you get 5 years with them to teach them how to make decisions. Then you're sharing their attention with their teachers and other students for the next 13 years. Before they get a chance to be comfortable making their own decisions and confident in who they are they are sent off to "group-think".
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I have gone to a public school and I don't consider myself a "group-thinker". But perhaps you were talking only about American public schools again?
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No, it doesn't apply to public schooled children. They are segregated into their own age group from the get go. The majority of their waking hours are spent with, and trying to fit in with, children their own age. At work, do you work with only people your own age? Are your friends all the same age? Why would you expect children who have been cooped up with kids the same age to be more socially adept than children who have interacted with ALL age groups?
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You make it sound like the kids going to public schools live in a bubble with their classmates. I have always thought myself as being socially adept, even though I "only" went to a public school.
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Consider this, I can't recall the last time a homeschool child murdered his entire family. And if he did, I'd question the homeschool environment (if his parents weren't astute enough to see that coming then they probably weren't doing a very good job teaching). But not a day goes by where a public school child doesn't beat-up another public school kid. Not a week goes by where a public school kid doesn't manage to get a gun or a knife into school intending to use it. Not a year goes by where a public school kid isn't murdered by another public school kid, sometimes these attacks are mass murders. You see, in a public school system, you don't have to worry whether your child is getting enough love at home, or whether your child is properly socialized - you have to worry that every other parent in that district is doing their job. And how realistic is it that they ALL are?
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This is an US specific issue.
And for the murdering part:
Along the lines of what I stated in my earlier post, I believe this has more to do with the families who choose homeschooling, not the homeschooling itself. I'd assume the people who choose homeschooling are generally pretty intelligent, have a healthy home etc. How many ghetto kids have been homeschooled? Not many I'd guess, so I wouldn't say that homeschooling makes better human beings, but rather that the environment the kids are raised in make better (or worse) human beings. The environment and circumstances cannot be blamed or thanked in every case, that's a given, but I think it has a lot more to do with the murders than education.
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How do you mean? Every one of these studies estimate between 800,000 and 1.2 million homeschooled children or about 1% of the school age population. Why would that matter?
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I meant do they take into account the fact that there are so much more children that go to public schools that there naturally is more variation just because of environment factors. And the homeschooled children are a much more homogenous group. How do they pick the sample? And are the results of these studies reliable?
I'd think they would be more reliable if they compared homeschooled children to children who go to better public schools in better areas. This way the weight of the environment factor could be reduced since everyone would have a "good" environment.
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Though my bias comes out in my replies, I'm not here to say that homeschool is better than public school.
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You say this, but still you claim homeschooled kids to be smarter, socially more adept etc.
But if you really think so I wish you would've said so in the beginning. That would've perhaps shortened the posts a bit
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I think they should pick their own clothes. No, I don't determine the type of music they play, the video games they play, or the movies they watch (except graphic sex, not ready for that conversation yet). The only condition is that they watch the movies, listen to the music, and play the games with me.
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Originally Posted by fatboy
I say again, you create the dress code. If you want your kid to do his school work in a coat and tie, make him wear a coat and tie.
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So do you create their dress code or not? :confused:
And I agree that parents should be there when their kids watch tv, play video games and so on. So good for you and your kids if you implement this.
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Sure, but by the time it's important to them they'll be comfortable making their own decisions about it (and they'll be paying for it).
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You really believe that children will start to form their opinions about e.g. fashion only when they are 18 or so?
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Well, there's nothing I can say to counter that. You can accept the findings or not.
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But wouldn't you suspect at least a little bit e.g. a research made by the Bush administration saying that things in Iraq are going as planned and everything is peachy?
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Well, I never said that (I think).
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I don't know if you did, I just put it in the list to make a point.
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They score better on accepted socialization tests than public school children.
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Are we speaking again of the research of the earlier mentioned Ron L. Hubbard of Homeschoolers? (just kidding ;) )
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You asserted that they didn't have the same socialization opportunities that public school children have. I countered with all of the options that they have.
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Ok. I may still disagree a bit but not that much. This issue isn't that important to me anyway, I just like a good argument.
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I started the whole thing with carefully hedged pros and cons. You chose to debate those opinions.
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Your cons were mainly related to the parents and society, not the kids. For them you found only pros, and I think this is not 100% true.