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Originally Posted by Ranger
Of course torture is sometimes justified. It has been used by every single country on the globe, and in every era, in some form or another. While I laud SwamP_ThinG's lofty idealism his arguments simply have no real foundation in reality, I'm afraid.
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Still taking pot shots at me, Ranger? Man, you are a lousy shot at that!
The question posted in the thread was not wether torture exists in the real world. Itīs wether it SHOULD exist, or not.
You know my answer.
If you agree with torture being used, how in hell do you have the nerve to stand there and demonize everyone else who uses it? Why was Saddamīs name dragged through the mud on torture charges, if you think itīs ok? Or Pinochet? Or Pol Pot? Or Hitler? How dare you judge others and expect no judgement for yourselfs?
Why is it that when its someone else sitting in the accused chair, you guys yell "rape", but when itīs you sitting there you say itīs "excusable" behaviour...
And donīt come using the family or loved one excuse either. The chance of that happening is so small that it is neglectible.
Since Ranger brought it up, about wether torturing a guy to save the whole world is ok, letīs examine it closer:
First of all, anyone willing to wipe out civilization like that has to be prepared to die himself. Do you think torture would scare him? And what makes you think he would tell you the truth, and not send you on a wild goose chase?
The tortured man will do anything and say anything to get the pain to stop. So why would you waste your precious time torturing someone knowing that you have a slim chance of getting a truthfull statement?
If you want to make torture "legal", you have to make it legal for everybody, for every country. You canīt go around saying "we are good torturers, but they are bad torturers", or "we torture to do good, while they torture to do evil". Torture is torture. There is no ambiguity in the act of torturing someone. You are willfully inflicting pain on someone. And that has no place in a civilized world.
You guys are quick to judge when you sit on the right side of the fence, but you forget that the door swings both ways. If you agree that the US should be allowed to conduct torture on its prisioners, you also will have to agree on the opposite, where americans are the ones being tortured.
There is a motto that i use always, in everything i do in life, the way i think, the way i do things, the way i behave:
"Never do onto others what you donīt want done onto you."
You donīt want to be tortured, then donīt torture anyone. Itīs simple.
In the short run, you might think you are doing some good by torturing someone in order to save others. But in the long run, you are doing your people no favours. The tortured man will become angry, his hatread for you will grow, and before you know it you have a whole bunch of people in need of rescueing also. Are you gonna torture others again, to save those? Thatīs a pretty good way to make enemies, thatīs for shure.
You start torturing people and excuse itīs use, and pretty soon every nation, every warlord, every one with some power over someone else will start doing it too. And not before long youīll find that when the shoeīs on the other foot, you wonīt like it nearly as much.