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Originally Posted by Ranger
[bMaybe for the intelligence she might ultimately provide? Maybe as a hostage? Maybe as a bargaining chip to trade for their own prisoners eventually?
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Precisely. And that´s why that iraqi should have been given similar chance.
Both were wounded, while fighting on opposite sides. But only one got "executed". Guess wich one?
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because they told the Iraqi soldiers she was too badly injured to be moved without killing her.
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Precisely. If the iraqis who captured her, or any others for that matter, wanted her dead, all they needed was to simply "move her". But they didn´t.
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So...you would get out of your tank while they are firing RPG's at you, just to move a corpse? If the guy on the ground couldn't move his own head he must have already been dead, or very near it, right? What would be the point?
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And just how do you know they were being fired on? Any secret source you have there? And even if they were, how much is necessary to swirve 2 feet out of the way? Especcially since the man was on the "sidewalk", practically. You should pay more attention to the data being presented.
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Do you actually have some specific proof to offer of this ever happening intentionally in Iraq? If you're going to point to that picture that I posted, well, those two guys were actually killed by a bomb from an aircraft that was striking a nearby target
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Well, then why did you bother to post it in the first place, if not to cause shock and awe (pardon my expression)?
Btw, just how you figured that it was a bomb? There´s no crater in sight, in the photo, so how do you figure that? By the dust covering the bodies, maybe? Or do you know something about it that i don´t?
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I don't know about you, but I'd expect a chicken truck to be full of chickens, myself. Wouldn't you?
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Preciselly again. So why would the US Army fire at a truck full of chickens, mmm? Maybe they were short of meat in the galley?
Yes the back of the truck was filled with hundreds of chickens, while the cabin was packed with 3 adult males, 2 adult women, and 3 children. Two men, 1 woman, and 2 children were killed in that checkpoint. The story ran the media, a while back. They found no weapons, although the soldiers claimed to have been fired upon from that truck. I´ll see if i can digg it up again.
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The Iraqi's are notorious for fabricating, and for believing any rumor that makes them look good and us look bad.
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Is that so? What ever gave you that idea?
Yeah, i guess they are a bunch of ignorant Pinocchios, n´ést pas? Better disregard them all, then. Even those who claim Saddam was a bad man! After all, acording to you they are ALL gulible liars...
Who´s to say the people who accused him weren´t "fabricating" it too?
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No. Actually I did not know that. I thought you were from Spain for some reason. My bad. I stand corrected, and I apologize for my mistake.
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No problem. I just wanted to remember you that Spain also has troops in Iraq aswell (at least for a few more weeks or days). So, even if you thought i was from Spain, you were mistaken about them not being there already too.
But i do understand your confusion. There are many in the US and world wide(except Europe, due to obvious reasons), that think Portugal is a spanish province. Just the other day i heard such an abomination on CNN!
Baah, we´ve learned to live with it...
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Great. Then you can report the real "truth" about everything that's going on over there back to all of us here, when you get there. We'll be looking forward to seeing if your current views are changed in any way by the actual experience. I'd be willing to bet my very last dime that they most definitely will be.
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If i get the chance, and i find an Internet cafe over there, i will write my memoires.Assuming, of course, everything goes acording to plan. There are many ways to fuck up my trip over there, all of them quite possible.
But i doubt i will change my basic views. I might change on a point or two, but i wouldn´t count on any 180º degree turns.
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I probably shouldn't, I suppose. The original source of the article was the front page of Al Jazeera after all...and we all know they're nothing but a filthy Islamic fundamentalist rag. Right?
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Contrary to the general belief, i don´t make out Al Jazzerah to be some flawless and unbiased network. I know they are not. However, even if that statement had came from the Bible itself, some sanctuary of wisdom and truth,or came out a fortune cookie, i still wouldn´t give it much credit.
I judge things by myself, not by the opinions of others. "
Non sequitor", that´s my motto.
If you say the presence of "better" or "worst" troops on the ground is a factor, amongst
dozens of other factors, i would agree. But, if you claim that it was the
sole factor, then that is pure simple mindedness.
I suppose you think the power cuts, the bombings, the insecurity, the crime rampage, the hunger, the lack of hospitals and all that, were not a factor, right?
Btw, if you think having "hard ass" troops or not is the main cause for them timming their rebellion, how do you explain Basra? The troops there have been the same ever since the conflict started (the british), so how do you explain the recent uprisals? There wasn´t any change on troop capacity there. And Najaf? Or Mossul? Or As-Sadr City?
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In fact, we could kill them all, every man woman and child. But we haven't. We have tried to minimize casualties whenever possible.
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I disagree. Although i am pretty shure there wasn´t any institutionalized intention of targeting civilians, i do believe a lot of casualties could and should have been avoided. I will give you the example of a small town , where the population was
killed in their beds .
Check these other stories out aswell:
US TROOPS ADMIT SHOOTING IRAQI CIVILIANS
US Marines Turn Fire on Civilians at the Bridge of Death
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0401-04.htm
Btw, and how about journalists? Do you think the US Army has been trying to minimize casualties there too? How do you explain the bombing of the Al-Jazeerah, and Al Arabyia offices in Baghdad? And the shooting of the Palestine Hotel, where the spanish Jose Couso and a ukranian camaramen died? Was that "necessary" to the war effort?
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I might point out that in Vietman we killed 1,100,000 and wounded more than 600,000. Just to give you some sense of proportion there...
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Vietnam war killed more than it wounded? Sounds crazy. Could be true, but it sounds crazy just the same. Usually a war causes more wounded thal deaths.
Also, you must know for shure that the first years of the Vietnam war were just like Iraq today. And then is escalated, just like what is happening now to Iraq. Given enough time, maybe you can break that record.
Just for the record, what do you think was the US policy towards civilians in Vietnam? Where do you stand on that one? Were they/you trying to "minimize civilian casualties" there?
PS:Check the "draft" thread. I´ve got something for you there.